Computer Forums Binary

 02-18-2015, 03:15 AM #1 Beta Member   Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: US Posts: 5 Binary Ive never had any technical training in programming but is Binary an actual programming language? I know network guys use it but do programmers? __________________ __________________
 02-18-2015, 10:35 AM #2 Site Team     Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10,720 Re: Binary Outside of the lower-level classroom activities binary wasn't used much in any of my networking classes in school. It was just used to show how networks determine where packets should go and what is internal traffic vs. external. The same thing applies to programmers. We don't program anything in binary (except on rare occasion) but everything gets turned into binary by the computer running it. __________________ __________________ "as a fanboy i refuse to admit it and will pull countless things out of my butt to disprove it" Team Thelegorm! Total Kills: 21 (i iz in uor profile, editsing your sigz)
 02-18-2015, 10:37 AM #3 Daemon Poster   Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: UK Posts: 627 Re: Binary Hello and welcome to the forum. You have asked a very very involved and complex question. In short yes binary was and is used to program computers. Binary is a numerical system based on two states 0 and 1. We normally work in denary which is a numerical system based on 10 digits ie 0 to 9. We use that system because we have ten digits or fingers. Computer programers because every piece of electronics that enable a computer to run is based on a system if switches and switches only have two states ie on or off. The on state is represented by a 1 and the off state is represented by a 0. Whilst programing in 1s and 0s can be and is used it can be very time consuming and takes all of your mental skills to bring about a result so programming languages were developed such as C, C+, CC+, Fortran etc. There are lots of different progarmming languages and these languages are specific to a programming task, They try to use a logical command rather than a series of 1s and 0s to perform a certain task within a program. But the bottom line is that all programming languages can be broken down to the base language used which is binary. I'm afraid that that is a very simplistic explanation and really if you want more knowledge and experience in this sort of stuff you really need to study computer science. I am by no means an expert on these things but I was brought up using personal computers such as the Sinclaire ZX80 which had to be programmed in binary code to perform very simple tasks such as drawing a mono coloured circle on the screen. That bit of binary coding actually took up a large part of the page in the Sinclaire magazine that attempted to teach us computer sprogs how to program. I never did learn how to do it and eventually just went down the road of building, using and repairing computers and letting others do the programming. __________________
 02-18-2015, 11:54 AM #4 Fully Optimized     Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: USA Posts: 2,631 Re: Binary For a direct answer to your question, no, binary is NOT a programming language. As Pete.i said, binary is a number system and the only thing that a computer actually works with. Languages are what humans understand. The purpose of a programming language is to translate what humans understand into binary so a computer can process it. Today's Dilbert comic strip seems appropriate here: dt150218.gif __________________
 02-18-2015, 12:38 PM #5 Daemon Poster   Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: UK Posts: 627 Re: Binary Here you go. Something to get your teeth into if you are really interested in this stuff. I hope you are because this is really where the money is to be made in computing. This is just a start. How Bits and Bytes Work - HowStuffWorks __________________
 02-18-2015, 12:47 PM #6 Beta Member   Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: US Posts: 5 Re: Binary wow thanks everyone for all the informative replies. I'm currently attending a community college (looking to transfer to a university after i graduate) for IT and am generally curious about programming. I was initially intimidated by it because I'm not great with advanced math but I'm really eager to learn all that i can about programming and syntax and all that good stuff. I just think it's cool. __________________
02-19-2015, 09:54 AM   #7
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Re: Binary

Quote:
 Originally Posted by celegorm Outside of the lower-level classroom activities binary wasn't used much in any of my networking classes in school.
...Really?

Never got into subnet masking using CIDR notations and figuring out how many hosts vs. networks you have??

Not saying I know more than you... but I remember doing that crap because I hated it!! Then again, with the advent of tools like SolarWind's subnet calculator... guess that math gets lost.
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J: We're just intelligent enough to be completely effing stupid.

 02-19-2015, 12:19 PM #8 Site Team     Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10,720 Re: Binary Lol that was my lower-level class... __________________ "as a fanboy i refuse to admit it and will pull countless things out of my butt to disprove it" Team Thelegorm! Total Kills: 21 (i iz in uor profile, editsing your sigz)
 02-20-2015, 12:35 PM #9 ..m.0,0.m..Site Team     Join Date: May 2010 Location: USA Posts: 3,926 Re: Binary ...? Really? Network Engineer? __________________ Me: You'd think as the dominant species we wouldn't be so effing stupid. J: We're just intelligent enough to be completely effing stupid.
 02-20-2015, 02:16 PM #10 Site Team     Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 10,720 Re: Binary No, Software engineer with a focus on networking. After that class where we programmed the physical controllers (which needed the binary and knowledge on how it was used to calculate subnets and such) we worked making our own porotocols in the upper-level classes using our controllers from the lower-level __________________ "as a fanboy i refuse to admit it and will pull countless things out of my butt to disprove it" Team Thelegorm! Total Kills: 21 (i iz in uor profile, editsing your sigz)
 02-25-2015, 09:59 AM #12 Fully Optimized     Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: USA Posts: 2,631 Re: Binary Yes Root, I did some programming of an HP 3000 mini computer in a college class back in 1976 or so using only the front panel switches. However, the front panel switches represented Octal, not Binary, so we had to convert the instructions into Octal in order to set the switches. Once the program was completely entered then you had to hit the "Run" button. The front panel lights would flicker for a few seconds and then stop, if the lights then showed a result of 0 (return code of zero) then the program ran successfully, otherwise a non-zero return code meant your program failed. After that class, I couldn't understand why people were so awestruck by computers since I thought it was way too much work to set the switches for each instruction and then run the program only to attempt to get a return code of zero. It was another 8 years before I used a PC with a keyboard for input and a monitor for output where I could finally see the value of using a computer. In between, I took a programming class where we used punched cards for input, another method that I felt was way too complicated to be worthwhile. __________________
 02-25-2015, 11:24 AM #13 Site Team     Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 8,107 Re: Binary That's not really too different from using hex as an intermediary step. in hex numbers 0,1,2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9,a, b, c, d, e, f represent numbers 0-15 (or 1 - 16 depending on where you start,) or a four bit binary number. in octal, number symbols 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7 represent numbers 0 - 7, (or three binary bits). it's still sort of programming in binary, in so far as you can "see" electrical connections being made. - and yes, a hell of a journey to see a light blink! or to add two small numbers together that you could do in your head. I guess that the answer is still the same, (you can do something, but ordinary people would choose not to!)... HP3000 is a little before my time!! __________________ I didn’t fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian… Im sick of people saying 'dont waste paper'. If trees wanted to live, they'd all carry guns. "The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; The inherent vice of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries."
 02-28-2015, 06:51 PM #14 Site Team     Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: England, UK Posts: 3,434 Re: Binary One thing I haven't seen mentioned (which is actually where I've had to drop down to raw 1's and 0's most) is reverse engineering of comms protocols (particularly serial protocols.) I've spent the best part of the last week in my day job reverse engineering an IR protocol used on laser tag guns... turned out to be a form of RS232 over IR, but with the start and stop bits backwards (don't get me started on the stupidity of that last bit!) That required an oscilloscope, logic analyser and many hours of staring at highs and lows on the scope (and translating them into 1's and 0's accordingly) before we figured out what was going on. Now that's figured out we're down to analysing the protocol at a higher packet based level, and the same applies - you still have to realistically work with the data at either a binary or a hex level to work out what bits are changing to what based on different parameters. Before that I was doing a similar task on a circuit board designed to drive ultrasonic rangefinders - same story. Before that I was doing the same thing on an atomic clock receiver with a UART (drivers were windows 3.1 only, not very useful today but the receiver itself works great!) Again, same story with dropping back to raw binary to work out the protocol. __________________ __________________ Save the whales, feed the hungry, free the mallocs.