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Old 10-28-2012, 12:09 AM   #11
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Default Re: Should I upgrade? Win8

Stick with 7. I tried 8 for a while and just went back to 7.

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Originally Posted by Hameister View Post
There have been many side by side, benchmark reviews, and there is simply no difference in performance between Win7 & 8.
Please point me in the direction of these benchmarks. They are probably inaccurate as the software used is testing the hardware and making assumptions about the OS' current hardware usage.


EDIT:
Funny how Windows 8 thought my same PC was slower than Windows 7 did. The two attachments show Windows 8 WEI as 7.2, while Windows 7 WEI is at 7.4.
I can't imagine they changed the rules on that...
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:59 AM   #12
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Default Re: Should I upgrade? Win8

Screw bench tests, Doesn't matter how fast it is if you can't use it anyway.

Support for Games is crap, the interface is utter **** (bad words). Why make an entire os release for a stupid tablet that no one is going to buy because it's crap compared to the iPad 3/Mini and the new Archos/Samsung ranges?

Petition for a new Windows 7 Service Pack, and perhaps Windows 9 will be better.
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:01 AM   #13
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Default Re: Should I upgrade? Win8

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
Stick with 7. I tried 8 for a while and just went back to 7.



Please point me in the direction of these benchmarks. They are probably inaccurate as the software used is testing the hardware and making assumptions about the OS' current hardware usage.


EDIT:
Funny how Windows 8 thought my same PC was slower than Windows 7 did. The two attachments show Windows 8 WEI as 7.2, while Windows 7 WEI is at 7.4.
I can't imagine they changed the rules on that...

Sorry, I have to disagree with much of what you say.

The software used in all the performance comparisons, do not test the hardware. Any performance test, uses the same "test bed". In other words, the exact same machine is loaded with a fresh install of Win7.

Then, Heaven, 3dMark11, 3dMark Vantage, Aruana, etc. are all run. Next a fresh install of Win8 is loaded, and the same benchmarks are run. The only thing that changed was the OS itself. Every comparison I have seen, including several done here on these forums by members, have clearly shown nearly identical scores between the 2 operating systems.

As for the WEI, you said..."I can't imagine they changed the rules on that" --- Yes, Microsoft has done just that, "changed the rules", with each new OS.

With each iteration of Windows, M$ realizes that hardware continues to improve, so the algorithms are changed in each version of the OS, in order maintain perspective on the changing hardware scene.

In Windows Vista, the WEI scoring was from 1 to 5.9 and in Windows 7 it changed, and is now 1 to 7.9, and Windows 8 is from 1 to 9.9. No two OS can be compared.

Here's a screen shot of mine, that I took today. If I wanted a perfect score of 7.9 on all hardware, all I needed to do was over clock my CPU to about 4.4GHz. That would have raised the processor score to 7.9.

However, if I ran this exact same configuration of hardware in Windows 8, several of the scores, perhaps even all the scores would drop slightly, because the changed algorithms, relate to a maximum of 9.9...follow?
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:05 AM   #14
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Default Re: Should I upgrade? Win8

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Darkseeker~ View Post
Screw bench tests, Doesn't matter how fast it is if you can't use it anyway.

Support for Games is crap, the interface is utter **** (bad words). Why make an entire os release for a stupid tablet that no one is going to buy because it's crap compared to the iPad 3/Mini and the new Archos/Samsung ranges?

Petition for a new Windows 7 Service Pack, and perhaps Windows 9 will be better.
Ridiculous, just ridiculous.
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Old 10-28-2012, 08:44 AM   #15
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Default Re: Should I upgrade? Win8

"You'd gain nothing but a new GUI which most people, including me, feels does not work well with a PC, unless it's a touch screen."

^ This!!! xD

I wouldn't bother with Windows 8 anytime soon, anyway; be sure to wait a while before jumping for the latest OS, since they are usually bugged to buggery on first release... take Windows XP and likely *cringe* Vista, for example.
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Old 10-28-2012, 01:34 PM   #16
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Default Re: Should I upgrade? Win8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hameister View Post
There have been many side by side, benchmark reviews, and there is simply no difference in performance between Win7 & 8.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
Please point me in the direction of these benchmarks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hameister View Post
[A lot of discussion with no factual data]
Please point me in the direction of these benchmarks.
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:16 PM   #17
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Default Re: Should I upgrade? Win8

I've been through this too many times. If you were familiar with benchmarking procedures, you never would have made the statements you made. If you were familiar with Windows WEI, you never would have made your prior comments.

I suggest you start a thread, with a title such as "Has anyone performance tested Win7 vs. Win8?"

OS-Wiz has done extensive testing with his test bed, as well as another fellow on these forums. A thread like that will attract their attention, and I'm sure they will provide you with all the proof you need. The previous thread on these forums had links to professional sites as well, or you could just Google them yourself. It has become common knowledge among enthusiasts, as Win8 has been scrutinized for the last 6 months, that there is no specific differences in performance between the two operating systems.

Like I said,...been through this too many times, and I know what the answer is.
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Old 10-28-2012, 07:46 PM   #18
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Default Re: Should I upgrade? Win8

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
Please point me in the direction of these benchmarks.
What? Why can't you just Google them yourself? Lazy? Don't want to hear the truth?

But I'll go along with you just so you'll have at least one link. These are the benchmarks I ran recently with the Windows 8 Enterprise Build 9200, the best they offer, RTM (if you aren't familiar with that acronym it means Release To Manufacturing, or the copy you can now buy). How did I get it so soon, I'm a member of MS Technet and been a beta tester of MS operating systems for years.
My system in my sig using all stock clocks and defaults. Most recent updates to Windows 7 and 8 and my vidcards. See post #395 page 10: Winders 8
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Old 10-28-2012, 09:42 PM   #19
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Default Re: Should I upgrade? Win8

Quote:
Originally Posted by OS-Wiz View Post
What? Why can't you just Google them yourself? Lazy?
If you knew me, the word lazy would be the furthest from your mind.

I ask because every article I can find relates Windows 8 to Vista, but none had benchmarks. Big name game makers are quoted as hating Win8.

I played along with your suggestion though and the first benchmark article I found clearly shows that Windows 8 is slower than 7.

Media Testing

Skyrim

Reboot and SATA

In my original thread about Windows 8, I stated that I noticed a stark difference in performance while playing Diablo 3. Since I've gone back to my OEM copy of 7, gameplay is once again smooth, like my system should be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by OS-Wiz View Post
Don't want to hear the truth?
The reality is that nobody knows the "truth" except the eggheads at Microsoft and nobody here is one of those. "Truth" is subjective and a point of view so please stop dealing in absolutes. If anything is "Truth" it is that Windows 8, however marginal, is slower than 7.

EDIT:
If there is a difference (as is clear in your own benchmark results), you can't say that there really is none... because there really is one. Benchmarks are great, but I can tell you from experience in overclocking the original Athlons and early ATI cards, benchmarks mean nothing compared to true stress testing. Benchmarks went right out the window when you opened Quake 3 Arena, walked up to a wall and fired a rocket.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hameister View Post
If you were familiar with benchmarking procedures, you never would have made the statements you made. If you were familiar with Windows WEI, you never would have made your prior comments.
The shoe is on the other foot my friend. Benchmarking products often times are able to interact directly with the hardware. If you were familiar with how Windows works, you'd see why this is a problem for testing an OS. Benchmarks are kind of like an IQ scoring method, where the score is really geared towards the handicap that exists. They are good when comparing two hardware items in like test environments. The Windows Kernel and virtualization layer haven't changed much, which is why you see similar, although slightly different results. When the rubber meets the road though, the differences start to make themselves known.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hameister View Post
OS-Wiz has done extensive testing with his test bed, as well as another fellow on these forums.
Yup, results were in favor of 7.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hameister View Post
It has become common knowledge among enthusiasts, as Win8 has been scrutinized for the last 6 months, that there is no specific differences in performance between the two operating systems.
The '100th Monkey Theory' does not apply here so "common knowledge" doesn't either. Everywhere I've found has noticed differences in gaming performance. Marginal, yes, but different, slower, worse. Diablo 3 is horrid on 8 as is StarCraft 2, probably explaining the below:

Quote:
Calling Windows 8 "a catastrophe for everyone in the PC space" may not endear Valve's Gabe Newell to the folks at Microsoft, but it struck a chord with a member of Blizzard Entertainment's top brass. Rob Pardo, Executive Vice President of Game Design at the Irvine-based company, took to Twitter and chimed in on the matter, stating that Windows 8 is "not awesome for Blizzard either."
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Old 10-28-2012, 11:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: Should I upgrade? Win8

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Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
I
Benchmarking products often times are able to interact directly with the hardware. If you were familiar with how Windows works, you'd see why this is a problem for testing an OS.
Well, I am familiar with how operating systems work. I've written a couple chunks of code for two OSs. The basic job of an OS is to dispatch tasks created by applications and itself. It relies on hardware, but doesn't directly interact with it, e.g. the OS must recognize the hardware interrupt to set time and timers but is told what time it is by the CPU, hardware fault detection, and I/O interrupts indicating an I/O has completed. The closest an OS gets to the hardware is at the disk/SSD I/O level, but even there it is simply supplying the addresses for track(s)/segment(s) fetched by the task. The OS does not even get close to hardware when graphics cards, sound cards, etc are concerned. That job is done by the maker's provided drivers and they are the ones that get closest to hardware. There is a whole level of granularity between what is burned into the silicon and CPU firmware and the OS's interaction with the thrown interrupts.

How fast a task is executed is solely dependent on is complexity, meaning how many opcodes and how complex the opcodes are to execute (the number of CPU cycles it takes to complete). And how well on-chip cache (L1, L2, L3, etc) is handled along with how efficient pipeline management is done. And, of course, the speed of the CPU.
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