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Old 01-20-2005, 10:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Linux Vs Windows

I have to disagree. In principle, what CarpeNoctem said is true, using a program like WINE or Cedega but unfortunately, it doesn't work out all the time. Because certain technologies like Direct3D and DirectSound aren't available on GNU/Linux, software that use these won't work.
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Old 02-09-2005, 08:14 PM   #12
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>>Most games cant run on linux because they use direct3d and it is only compatible with windows i believe so the games like ut 2003/2004 and doom3 on linux use the opengl engine.

Most games can't run on Linux because they are compiled for Windows and the developers don't bother porting them to Linux.

A lot of games use Direct 3D which is a way for the game engine to talk to the graphics card directly. Direct 3D only works on Windows because Direct 3D is made by Microsoft.

OpenGL isn't an engine, it does the same job as Direct 3D and it does it better. a Lot of Developers choose Direct 3D because it also handles sound, opengl does not, and its usually seen as easier to work with. (i don't believe that one, i worked with both and i preferred opengl)

>>Well, usually Linux ports can be found 3 or 4 months after a game is released

No they can't.

I consider myself a gamer and i don't have a Windows partition on my computer. I run Counter-Strike (through Winex, constant 99fps @ 1024x786. Works perfectly) and all the other games are Linux Native except for Warcraft 3 and i did try Half Life 2 on Linux but i'm not really a half life fan. More of a Doom guy.

Anyways to answer the first guys question. It depends on what your going to be gaming. The vast majority of games will not run on linux because the companies who make them haven't made linux versions. Saying that, the vast majority of games are complete crap that i wouldn't want to even try out.

In my opinion almost all of the important good games around are abailible for Linux and the majority of the time the Linux ports run a lot better then their windows counterparts. Quake 3 was a huge example of that, kicked windows performance's ass.
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Old 02-10-2005, 06:45 AM   #13
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Default Re: Linux Vs Windows

True. I feel that we as GNU/Linux users should support OpenGL and boycott Direct3D. If all game developers can build in openGL support into their games, half the battle is already won. WINE and similar products can never come up with full Direct3D support cos they will always be one step behind.
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Old 02-10-2005, 07:17 AM   #14
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Default Re: Linux Vs Windows

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamroot
True. I feel that we as GNU/Linux users should support OpenGL and boycott Direct3D. If all game developers can build in openGL support into their games, half the battle is already won. WINE and similar products can never come up with full Direct3D support cos they will always be one step behind.

Lol; powerful bodies Boycott things - not groups who have no power over gaming already. If it was a big gaming market - it would work but it isn't because few people care about using games on Linux besides Linux.
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Old 02-10-2005, 11:45 AM   #15
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>>Lol; powerful bodies Boycott things

Do you know the origins of the word boycott ?

It was a term phrased by a group of people who had very little power against a man called Captain Boycott. He treated them badly and they "Boycotted" him by not working on his land. He was forced to try and pay foreigners to come into the country to harvest his crop and thus the labour cost him more then the actual crop was worth.

Those people had no power whatsoever. They were second class citizens in a state which their language, religion and culture were illegal. Imagine waking up tomorrow and not been able to use your own name in public, instead having to change it to more suit a foreigners language ?

>>not groups who have no power over gaming already.

Although you were wrong about the need to be a powerful group to boycott. Linux Users are a powerful gaming group.

Next time your playing Counter-Strike or Quake or any game thats not made by Microsoft, have a look at the server statistics. The vast vast majority of gaming servers run on Linux.
A lot of these servers are run by people who do it for free.

>>few people care about using games on Linux besides Linux.

John Carmack cares.

Again i ask you name a few MUST have games that are not availible on Linux ? discounting Half-Life and its mods and Warcraft.
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Old 02-10-2005, 02:56 PM   #16
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Default Re: Linux Vs Windows

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclane
>>Lol; powerful bodies Boycott things

Do you know the origins of the word boycott ?

It was a term phrased by a group of people who had very little power against a man called Captain Boycott. He treated them badly and they "Boycotted" him by not working on his land. He was forced to try and pay foreigners to come into the country to harvest his crop and thus the labour cost him more then the actual crop was worth.

Those people had no power whatsoever. They were second class citizens in a state which their language, religion and culture were illegal. Imagine waking up tomorrow and not been able to use your own name in public, instead having to change it to more suit a foreigners language ?
Those people have power, because they do something for the person - that was their power and taking away that work meant they took him down however Linux does nothing for gaming. Its not even a large market for gaming - most people who use it don't want to use it for games because they're fine with Windows, another large chunk are people who don't buy software at all - if they wanted a game they'd download it whether its for Linux or Windows. That's why they have no power. Power isn't about Class; its about what you can do to the thing you're trying to change.


There is no leverage or power in Linux to change what Gaming Companies do. If they made games for Linux it would at least rise their Research costs and Production costs, and raise their profits little, if at all. Plus - not enough people use Linux and play games so that even if everybody who used Linux, even Linux with Windows, stopped buying games (which wouldn't happen anyway, only the pure Linux Users would do it and then most of them would be so out of playing games they wouldn't buy games) nobody would notice or care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclane
>>not groups who have no power over gaming already.

Although you were wrong about the need to be a powerful group to boycott. Linux Users are a powerful gaming group.

Next time your playing Counter-Strike or Quake or any game thats not made by Microsoft, have a look at the server statistics. The vast vast majority of gaming servers run on Linux.
A lot of these servers are run by people who do it for free.
Haha, Gaming Servers... that's a general server problem and these people would do it still, they would not go on a Boycott anyway.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclane
>>few people care about using games on Linux besides Linux.

John Carmack cares.

Again i ask you name a few MUST have games that are not availible on Linux ? discounting Half-Life and its mods and Warcraft.

Haha, how many people have heard about John Carmack? Half-Life, Warcraft, Half-Life 2, Halo... all large games. I don't know many games though
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Old 02-10-2005, 06:14 PM   #17
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>>Those people have power, because they do something for the person

Yet they were small group of people who could have easily been replaced. I didn't go on further with the history lesson but the reason he had to get foreigners in to do the work was because the original group, threatened and fought with any other local people who attempted to do the work.

>>Linux does nothing for gaming.

As i already stated, the vast majority of games servers run on Linux.

>>. Plus - not enough people use Linux and play games

http://www.linux-gamers.net

A community website dedicated to gaming on Linux

http://www.transgaming.org

An entire commercial company whose only product is software which allows u to play direct x based games on Linux.

Theres obviously some market or these people wouldn't make money.

>>Haha, Gaming Servers... that's a general server problem and these people would do it still, they would not go on a Boycott anyway.

What is a general server problem ?

Why wouldn't they go on a boycott ? They have kept the online gaming backbone going for years without any positive feedback from certain companies.

Look at valve software, there wouldn't release a Linux client version of Steam but they sure as hell released a Linux Server version so Linux servers could host the games.

Up to 80% of Counter-strike servers run on Linux,

>>aha, how many people have heard about John Carmack?

Your absolutely right, how silly of me to think that anyone with any involvement with games would know who John Carmack was.

For anyone whos reading this and doesn't know who John Carmack is i apologise.

For anyone who does know who he is, John's company whose name i won't state as obviously no one would have heard of it before, have always produced all of their game engines under *nix and then ported the said engine over to windows. The exception came with their latest game.

Lord Kalthorn, do u think you have the right to talk about Games when you don't know who John Carmack is ?
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Old 02-10-2005, 09:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: Linux Vs Windows

We could write petitions to game developers. There was a petition signed by a few thousand people sent to Blizzard requesting a GNU/Linux port of World of Warcraft. Though it didnt work out, it still is an excellent way to get our views heard. Indie game developers could also make their games openGL only. I'm currently developing a game now and i plan to make it support openGL only. Hopefully a trend can be started soon where game developers support a cross-platform free technology, not D3D.
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Old 02-11-2005, 05:46 AM   #19
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Default Re: Linux Vs Windows

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclane
>>Those people have power, because they do something for the person

Yet they were small group of people who could have easily been replaced. I didn't go on further with the history lesson but the reason he had to get foreigners in to do the work was because the original group, threatened and fought with any other local people who attempted to do the work.
Haha; and Linux users are going to start war on the Gaming Industry to bring it to a hault merely to get gaming companies to loose money and make less quality games? The next thing they'll be asking for is the games to be Open-Source. If you start that you'll end up with Anarchy; especially considering anything beyond a protest and its all Illegal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclane
>>Linux does nothing for gaming.

As i already stated, the vast majority of games servers run on Linux.
There are many Linux Servers, we all know that. These can be replaced however and Linux does not need or want to loose more Server ground.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclane
>>. Plus - not enough people use Linux and play games
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclane
http://www.linux-gamers.net

A community website dedicated to gaming on Linux

http://www.transgaming.org

An entire commercial company whose only product is software which allows u to play direct x based games on Linux.

Theres obviously some market or these people wouldn't make money.
Wow! Look how many members those Sites have!...

How the devil do they make money? They sell Open-Source products to a communtiy of two and a half thousand people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclane
>>Haha, Gaming Servers... that's a general server problem and these people would do it still, they would not go on a Boycott anyway.

What is a general server problem ?

Why wouldn't they go on a boycott ? They have kept the online gaming backbone going for years without any positive feedback from certain companies.

Look at valve software, there wouldn't release a Linux client version of Steam but they sure as hell released a Linux Server version so Linux servers could host the games.

Up to 80% of Counter-strike servers run on Linux,
Yeah - and that's what they can do. If they've kept it up for so long without feedback (and its from the gamers that matters really) they're not going to stop it just because a few thousand Linux gamers want their Graphics Library used. Sounds like a cheap way to get it into the system to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclane
>>aha, how many people have heard about John Carmack?

Your absolutely right, how silly of me to think that anyone with any involvement with games would know who John Carmack was.

For anyone whos reading this and doesn't know who John Carmack is i apologise.
Haha; well I don't And while I don't play games I don't expect I would but while I'm sure he's really good and nice and can write games in his sleep balancing on his head playing a piano with his toes there are better gaming designers, there have been better gaming designers and there will be better gaming designers. The opinion of somebody who makes the damned stuff is not very unbiased is it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcclane
For anyone who does know who he is, John's company whose name i won't state as obviously no one would have heard of it before, have always produced all of their game engines under *nix and then ported the said engine over to windows. The exception came with their latest game.
Haha! That's why he cares - because he makes the damned thing. Not biased of course...
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamroot
We could write petitions to game developers. There was a petition signed by a few thousand people sent to Blizzard requesting a GNU/Linux port of World of Warcraft. Though it didnt work out, it still is an excellent way to get our views heard. Indie game developers could also make their games openGL only. I'm currently developing a game now and i plan to make it support openGL only. Hopefully a trend can be started soon where game developers support a cross-platform free technology, not D3D.
I'm sure they felt very threatened by the few thousand... its not a very big number is it?

You were just talking of only making it available in OpenGL... doesn't sound very Open and Cross Platform to me The point being of course - Direct 3D is cross Platform - it runs on every major operating System; Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows 98 and Mac.
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Old 02-11-2005, 06:22 AM   #20
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>>Haha; and Linux users are going to start war on the Gaming Industry

I never said we should or we would. I merely stated that you were wrong about the meaning of the word boycott and you were wrong when you said Linux users had no power over Gaming.

>>There are many Linux Servers, we all know that. These can be replaced however and Linux does not need or want to loose more Server ground.

No, the vast majority of Gaming servers are Linux because Windows simply is not able for it. Theres a reason these companies who do not make Linux versions of their games, make Linux versions of their game serving software.

>>Wow! Look how many members those Sites have!..

Linux-gamers.net is one of many sites dedicated to linux gaming.

>>How the devil do they make money? They sell Open-Source products to a communtiy of two and a half thousand people.

Transgaming has a lot more than 2 and a half thousand members, and their product isn't open source. Its made up of open source code and their own commercial code.

>>want their Graphics Library used

OpenGL is not a Linux Graphics library, OpenGL is an Open non-proprietry method of talking directly to the graphics hardware. Its cross-platform.

>>there are better gaming designers, there have been better gaming designers and there will be better gaming designers.

There have not been better Gaming designers, there haven't been better gaming designers. There might be better gaming designers in the future when hes retired.

Without John Carmack there wouldn't be a Half-life, there wouldn't be a Halo, there wouldn't be a gaming industry as we know it today.

>>Haha! That's why he cares - because he makes the damned thing.

Because he makes what ?

He created Doom, return to castle wolfenstein and the Quake Series.

He is the most influential figure in Gaming and i have yet to see anyone beat a John Carmack game in the first few months of when its released.

btw don't talk to me about hl-2, the lighting was prehistoric, the storyline was solely there to drag people into the third, the physics engine was the best thing about the game and they bought that from someone else.

>>OpenGL... doesn't sound very Open and Cross Platform to me

"OpenGL (Open Graphics Library) is a specification defining a cross-language cross-platform API for writing applications that produce 3D computer graphics (and 2D computer graphics as well). The interface consists of about 250 different function calls which can be used to draw complex three-dimensional scenes from simple primitives. It is very popular in the video games industry where it competes with Direct3D (on Microsoft Windows) (see Direct3D vs. OpenGL). OpenGL is used in CAD, virtual reality, scientific visualisation programs, information visualisation and video game development."

Open--GL. The name might point to the fact that its *Shock* OPEN. Opengl runs on any platform, Windows, Linux or Mac.
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