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Old 05-06-2004, 03:50 PM   #31
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Default Re: Linux Questions

it's not being backed in high level departments, but if say a few million low level secretaries start using linux / open office instead of windows / MSoffice then the government save the (volume licence) price of the software.

even small businesses can save massive amounts of money by using linux.

at the end of the day it probably will come down to money.
(an i'm afraid microsoft will luck out on that one)
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Old 05-06-2004, 05:09 PM   #32
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Default Re: Linux Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
it's not being backed in high level departments, but if say a few million low level secretaries start using linux / open office instead of windows / MSoffice then the government save the (volume licence) price of the software.

even small businesses can save massive amounts of money by using linux.

at the end of the day it probably will come down to money.
(an i'm afraid microsoft will luck out on that one)
A Few Million! There aren't a few thousand low level secretaries in Japan; and not much more than a few million in all of the countries of the world. And, no offence to low level secretaries; they do not have the ability with Computers to care, nor even if they did would they care. And - it doesn't cost them anything to get Windows which it is likely they would prefer; so why change? Open-Office is not that compatable with other computers and even if it was it is uncomparable to Microsoft Office.

And a Government I imagine gets a very good volume price for the number of computers they use and the fact that they will need to come back later for another version. The cost of implementing Linux into a system which generally uses Windows would be so costly they would stay with Windows. It is not an implementable scheme. All of the staff would need to be trained all over again in Linux Training Courses (which don't exist, so it would cost even more!)

It probably will. That is probably the only card Linux can hold against Windows with any power at all. And even now its getting old - you get what you pay for basically.
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Old 05-06-2004, 07:35 PM   #33
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Default Re: Linux Questions

yes, but consider that a shelf copy of office XP cost over 200 whilst open office is free and remarkably simillar to word, - supporting all the formats and more. you only need to replace 20 copies of office and you've saved nearly 6000.

Volume licensing does make software cheaper, but the discount is practically negligable compared to the full cost of the product anyway. and many departments will be incharge of their own software purchasing, - making volume buying and licensing impractical to implement.

Nobody has to be retrained as open office is so similliar to word.
and for the most part and 'low-level' secretary won't be using any advanced features o windows and some desktop links placed by an admin will be enough to get them going under linux. - so retraining costs are also negligable.
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Old 05-07-2004, 12:16 PM   #34
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Default Re: Linux Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
yes, but consider that a shelf copy of office XP cost over 200 whilst open office is free and remarkably simillar to word, - supporting all the formats and more. you only need to replace 20 copies of office and you've saved nearly 6000.
Good point; but if you're buying 20 copies it won't cost 200 each. It will cost something like 100 or 80 each; maybe even less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
Volume licensing does make software cheaper, but the discount is practically negligable compared to the full cost of the product anyway. and many departments will be incharge of their own software purchasing, - making volume buying and licensing impractical to implement.
Well then thats inefficient isn't it. I have no idea why any company or government would do that sort of stupidity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
Nobody has to be retrained as open office is so similliar to word.
and for the most part and 'low-level' secretary won't be using any advanced features o windows and some desktop links placed by an admin will be enough to get them going under linux. - so retraining costs are also negligable.
Then why does it even matter whether they're using Windows or not; it is again useless for the Admin to have to install Linux all over again. And then - it doens't matter if these secretaries want Linux or not. The Admin won't want to do it, and the government won't want to bother ordering it done. It would be a waste of time - and there is not will to do it anyway.

Other than money - there is not point for anybody to get Linux! 1 in every 10,000 or so people know how to edit the code of a OS to their own advantage. 1 in every Million people will have a use for this editting - as I have said before it is a useless waste of time.
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Old 08-26-2004, 05:40 AM   #35
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Default Re: Linux Questions

DO NOT INSTALL LINUX!!

I ended up formatting my Master Boot Record and hardrive for it!
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Old 08-26-2004, 11:32 PM   #36
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Default Re: Linux Questions

also it dont have a lower TCO since you ahve to retrain people and it takes longer to deploy applications specially accross a network of over 100 computers. there is no central way to do it.
there also is kernel limitations as to what hardware you can use
also takes longer to get apps working due to compilation iussues and keeping up with updated packages for the OS.

each system has to have updated packages unless done by kickstart inital install. and thats a pain.

also each system isnt the same and you cannot use centrallised servers for automated install on over 1000 pcs. like Microsoft Systems Manager can. it has not limit! 5 to 500,000 or more!

linux is mostly good for webserving and is not a feasable commercial enterprise OS. or easy for any large enterprise to deploy and administer

administration perspective is much more difficult sicne packages have to be updated on each workstation before inital application deplyment and continue to be updated as needs grow.
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Old 08-26-2004, 11:39 PM   #37
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Default Re: Linux Questions

also their is no way to monitor and limit the conrol over all options on workstations. theres root and non root and thats it.

no power user or backup operator profiles you can assign to users from any server

also active directory is the best user managemtn tool becuse it allows for automated assignment of roles and allows for worry free control over what user can or cannot do

also windows domains are very easy and quick to deploy Ive done it in less than 10 minutes to create a 50 user doman with 5 groups! and setup on clients is easy too.

just go to my computer and computer name and you can join a domain right from there without no change to network settings! and its instantainius with only a restart needed

also since its centrallised you can install apps to all power users or all standard users... or just the acounting division or the engineeering division with the powerfil goups feature you can define! this makes it lots easier to upgrade departments at a time. or the whole enterprise!
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Old 08-26-2004, 11:40 PM   #38
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Default Re: Linux Questions

its almost "set it and forget it"
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Old 08-28-2004, 05:28 PM   #39
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Ok, first target, Dell_ate_my_dog.

Quote:
there also is kernel limitations as to what hardware you can use
Uhm, no there's not. The kernel itself is not limited in this way at all - its a modular system, and therefore, you have a driver, you load it as a module, you're done.

Quote:
also takes longer to get apps working due to compilation iussues and keeping up with updated packages for the OS.
No, it really doesn't take longer than an install, especially if one uses the RPMs or TGZ, which install actually much faster than any programs using install-shield. And as to updating, every major distro has its own method of automatically updating everything, from the Red Hat Network to Gentoo's portage system.

What's that? Everything? Yes, I said everything. "SO you mean I can update everything on my computer with one command?" Yes sparky, you can.


Quote:
each system has to have updated packages unless done by kickstart inital install. and thats a pain.
Or you could log into a central server as a workstation. Just a suggestion.

Quote:
also each system isnt the same and you cannot use centrallised servers for automated install on over 1000 pcs. like Microsoft Systems Manager can. it has not limit! 5 to 500,000 or more!
See above.

Quote:
linux is mostly good for webserving and is not a feasable commercial enterprise OS. or easy for any large enterprise to deploy and administer
I think Daimler-Chrysler and Home Depot would disagree, but each to their own.

Quote:
administration perspective is much more difficult sicne packages have to be updated on each workstation before inital application deplyment and continue to be updated as needs grow.
Already addressed.

Quote:
also their is no way to monitor and limit the conrol over all options on workstations. theres root and non root and thats it.
Obviously, you've never heard of groups, or permissions. Since you obviously have never had any real interaction with Linux, much less UNIX, this doesn't suprise me. You create groups which certain programs, files, etc. belong too, and then you put someone in that group. You can also set read write and executable permissions for the groups.

Quote:
no power user or backup operator profiles you can assign to users from any server
See above.

Quote:
also active directory is the best user managemtn tool becuse it allows for automated assignment of roles and allows for worry free control over what user can or cannot do
Every time you add a user, you assign what they can and cannot do.

Quote:
also windows domains are very easy and quick to deploy Ive done it in less than 10 minutes to create a 50 user doman with 5 groups! and setup on clients is easy too.

just go to my computer and computer name and you can join a domain right from there without no change to network settings! and its instantainius with only a restart needed
Holy Shit! That sounds just like the domainname file in Linux! Oh Wait, it is, essentially.

Quote:
also since its centrallised you can install apps to all power users or all standard users... or just the acounting division or the engineeering division with the powerfil goups feature you can define! this makes it lots easier to upgrade departments at a time. or the whole enterprise!
OR you can install it once and set the permissions so that the users you want to use it can.

Someone said something about selling linux support is illegal because you're essentially paying for something that should be free? That's not true at all. You can download linux for free without the support. You can buy it on a CD for the cost of the media. You can buy it from a distribution for cost of the media and support. One does not necessitate the other.

Open Source will not die, due to the nature of it. As long as there is curiousity, and as long as people work together, it will flourish. It is similar to the scientific community in this case - you build off of one another's successes.

Oh, and speaking of which, has anyone else noticed that the number of computers running Internet Exploiter has fallen for the first time in years, while the number of computers running Mozilla is and has been steadily rising? And thats with many of the Mozilla computers registering themselves as IE, due to Microsoft's fscked (no, not misspelled, 10 points if you figure it out) up implementation of how IE reads HTML.

And don't you all even think about bringing up the SCO lawsuit. Even with Microsoft's money backing it, it has fallen flat on its face, and is now losing ground to IBM's suit.

Linux is far away from the home desktop, this is true. However, its gaining ground. Someone smart enough to read the directions can install it with relative ease.


Oh, and all you windows lackeys out there, I have one word for you: UNIX. Its still the king of servers. 30 years can't be wrong.
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Old 08-28-2004, 11:18 PM   #40
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Default Re: Linux Questions

well its a pain for huge companies and its still not suited for the desktop. I didnt come here for an argument. I wanted to address the major points... on what I think is best about windows networking. from a networking perspective. please dotn take it too hard!
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