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Old 05-04-2004, 01:12 AM   #31
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Default Re: I thought Mac's were easy

Its practically proven that Macs are more stable than Windows-based systems. How often do u see a trojan horse for a mac?
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Old 05-04-2004, 11:44 AM   #32
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I have never used a Mac on the internet - but I've never heard of an occourence of a Trojan Horse for a Computer either; does that mean they don't exist? I know it happens, and so it much on a Mac. But why does a Trojan horse have anythign to do with Stability?
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Old 05-05-2004, 06:16 AM   #33
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Default Re: I thought Mac's were easy

It does matter. As Windows is so damn popular, every hacker wannabe wants to take a potshot at it. This makes Windows unsafe. Even with all the patches that Microsoft releases.
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Old 05-05-2004, 09:51 AM   #34
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MAC os is more stable, but I think you'll find if M$ were allowed to dictate exactly what hardware / software combinations were usable then I'm sure they'd be able to make a more stable OS.

The biggest problem with implementing any OS is the practically unlimited hardware combinations, all of which have to be catered for.
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Old 05-05-2004, 03:44 PM   #35
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Default Re: I thought Mac's were easy

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamroot
It does matter. As Windows is so damn popular, every hacker wannabe wants to take a potshot at it. This makes Windows unsafe. Even with all the patches that Microsoft releases.
Naturally; its whats always going to happen. However - could Mac OS X even their 'Almighty' Panther put up with being the top dog for even a month? They'd be backrupt with the pressure! Could Linux do it? I also think not - probably not even for a couple of weeks.

Windows is more stable than the others - if it were under the same pressure as Mac and especially Linux then everybody would say its the most stable. I see that - why doesn't anybody else?
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Old 05-05-2004, 03:46 PM   #36
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Default Re: I thought Mac's were easy

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
MAC os is more stable, but I think you'll find if M$ were allowed to dictate exactly what hardware / software combinations were usable then I'm sure they'd be able to make a more stable OS.

The biggest problem with implementing any OS is the practically unlimited hardware combinations, all of which have to be catered for.
That is a point - Mac uses one load of hardware - Microsoft is expected to be workable on more combinations of hardware than there can be digits in a 128-bit processor! That fits in pretty well with what I said back there too!
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Old 05-05-2004, 06:06 PM   #37
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Default Re: I thought Mac's were easy

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamroot
Its practically proven that Macs are more stable than Windows-based systems. How often do u see a trojan horse for a mac?
intrestingly enough this exact issue has come up on another forum.

http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=04864
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/ven...mpsons@mm.html
http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...4265_tc056.htm

These are links to places the wil give information about worms and other virii for macs.

The very nature of programming is that it will be exploitable. How many people here can write programs in C?
how many of you use scanf to take information from the keyboard?
(chances are if you use C you'll use scanf for simple inputs)
how many people using scanf check the result of the function, flush out the buffers, and make sure the correct input type is obtained etc?

probably not many, - incidentaly I'm guilty too, if I write something for myself I generally make it quickly, the only time I've ever made comprehensive 'unbreakable' programs was when I was being assesed according to security criteria whilst doing assignments at uni.

before you know it, your ten minute software solution is a usefull tool, infact it's so usefull that other people have implemented it, then you realise, it's riddled with bugs, and really needs re-developing with security in mind. - for a lot of people this isn't an option.

Linux wins out over windows in this respect because a lot of development is done by enthusiasts, - which aren't paid, wheras with windows, if you've paid someone to develop a piece of sftware you don't want to have to pay twice to have someone do it again.

Instead windows takes the view that it will fix it's software afterwards.

in this respect Linux and Mac couldnever compete on the same level as windows, MAC is big, but support is not big enough or strong enough to cope with the kind of things windows has to.

the same for linux, an unpaid volenteer comunity cannot be expected to respond as quickly as a paid development team - (that is when the customer is paying). And as such Linux also couldn't compete on the same level as windows.

(long post, or the second part was, but I was trying to make a point)
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Old 05-05-2004, 07:33 PM   #38
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Default Re: I thought Mac's were easy

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
intrestingly enough this exact issue has come up on another forum.

http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=04864
http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/ven...mpsons@mm.html
http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...4265_tc056.htm

These are links to places the wil give information about worms and other virii for macs.
Ha Ha! See; compared to the number of Macs being used there are probably more problematic bugs than Windows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
The very nature of programming is that it will be exploitable. How many people here can write programs in C?
how many of you use scanf to take information from the keyboard?
(chances are if you use C you'll use scanf for simple inputs)
how many people using scanf check the result of the function, flush out the buffers, and make sure the correct input type is obtained etc?
Lol! I have to admit I had to look into that bit cause I am only starting on C# and nowhere near C! But a very good point! And it is also true that many Virus Writers will probably work for Microsoft and write Linux on the side. Giving them a distinct advantage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
Linux wins out over windows in this respect because a lot of development is done by enthusiasts, - which aren't paid, wheras with windows, if you've paid someone to develop a piece of sftware you don't want to have to pay twice to have someone do it again.
Perhaps this is true; but Microsoft can't have shabby workmanship and I have seen the Base at Reading - it isn't a silly programmers shack where people shoot out work as fast as possible. I realise they don't do any of the good things at Reading but still - the Redmond one from what little I have seen looks more professional and precise. I would like to think that the programmers look over their stuff - and Microsoft Products are Beta Tested first by trained proffessionals and then even to the open public who are minded as such to test it. I don't believe at all that Linux is anymore precise and checked than Windows for even one moment. And I like to think that when I do go and work for them (Cross-Fingers) I will not find that my trust is not misplaced; otherwise whenever I become incharge of anything however small the people under me will feel very pressurized!

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
Instead windows takes the view that it will fix it's software afterwards.

in this respect Linux and Mac couldnever compete on the same level as windows, MAC is big, but support is not big enough or strong enough to cope with the kind of things windows has to.
Yey! AT last somebody else has said it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
the same for linux, an unpaid volenteer comunity cannot be expected to respond as quickly as a paid development team - (that is when the customer is paying). And as such Linux also couldn't compete on the same level as windows.

(long post, or the second part was, but I was trying to make a point)
And again, at last somebody else has pointed it out. Linux and Mac have their groups of loyal users - but in the bigger wider market; the one Windows battles its way through everyday sometimes even against the will of huge opposition by Hackers, Crackers, Linux Users, Mac Users, Developers, Small Companies, Big Companies, and in many cases Huge Companies like Sun - often even Governments and as we have seen the European Union. Linux as I have said would not last 2 weeks in there conditions and would litterally Liquidate. Mac would probably last about a Month but still - Liquidation.

Give Windows its due!
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Old 05-05-2004, 07:57 PM   #39
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Default Re: I thought Mac's were easy

my point was that exploitable code leaves the door, and this pretty much cann ot be helped, it woul take a lot longer to bug check everything to an acceptable level though.

For instance, http://www.securitytracker.com/alert...b/1009067.html a simple muistake like a signed char, the developer should have been using an unsigned char from the start, but people don't always think, 'this bit of code i'm writting will leave the office sometime,'
I mean it's easy enough to write a key generator, and serial protect your own software, but most people, even softwaer developers don't have the slightest clue about what happens whn things get released.
a simple mistake like the unsigned char can be found by decompiling the binary excecutable. - but easily overlooked when checking through code.
(although you do have to understand machine code to actually know how the oppcodes affect the programme stack etc...)
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Old 05-06-2004, 11:56 AM   #40
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Well, you obviously know far more programming than I! So I can't even debate what you just said because I'm utterly stupid with that at the moment.

However; from my limited standpoint I think I can see what you're talking about. But I don't see how it affects Operating Systems which would be programmed with at least some knowledge or an idea of what sort of thing will and has happened before once it gets out. Would people not check it more if they knew they were doing it for that?
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