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Old 12-08-2010, 11:50 AM   #21
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Default Re: WikiLeaks

the point was you said
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We do NOT need to know about some of the military operations that have been carried out. Sure they are rough and not pleasant, but that's war, you have to play dirty.
but America isn't technically, or officially at war...

so what we're left with is.
We do NOT need to know about some of the military operations that have been carried out. Sure they are rough and not pleasant, but you have to play dirty.

which to be honest, I've got no problem with, I just like my truths to be complete truths.

how many politicians have used the phrase we're at war, to justify either behaviour, or extra money? what they should be saying is in troubled time to further strengthen our home security through our missions abroad we need xyz extra money.
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:50 AM   #22
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Default Re: WikiLeaks

So you should just ignore it? That doesn't seem quite right to me...
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Old 12-08-2010, 07:09 PM   #23
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@Root: Doesn't matter what's on the list. The fact that the list was considered to be confidential and he released it is what matters.

How could a potential Supreme Court case not yield monumental effects? The guy is using the Internet to spread information about the security of a nation. If he can be persecuted for this, then what will determine what endangers a nation? This would give precedence for the government to further restrict the First Amendment.
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:39 PM   #24
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Default Re: WikiLeaks

I have seen in the papers something about him being a spy or something... Here is some of the latest news on WikiLeaks http://www.news.ninemsn.com.au/techn...ileaks-payback.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:51 PM   #25
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Default Re: WikiLeaks

Apparently, the mastercard sit is being taken down by DDoS attacks for not letting people donate to wikileaks. I bet paypal is next.

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I have ssen in the paers something about him being a spy or something...
He was not a spy. All he did was publish information that he obtained from a source.
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Old 12-09-2010, 04:14 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JogaBonito1502 View Post
@Root: Doesn't matter what's on the list. The fact that the list was considered to be confidential and he released it is what matters.

How could a potential Supreme Court case not yield monumental effects? The guy is using the Internet to spread information about the security of a nation. If he can be persecuted for this, then what will determine what endangers a nation? This would give precedence for the government to further restrict the First Amendment.
read my post above.

he's spread information that's obvious, the Italian president considers himself a ladies man, France president is thin skinned and quick to anger, Russians president considers him self a bit of an "alpha dog"
these are not national security secrets, they are well established, and well known (if you bother to look outside your own country).

as I said, the sites of national importance are also pretty well known, stuff that you're average person in the street is likely to know.


there is not a lot that's actually there that would help anyone attack America. there isn't anything about national security.

so far as the classification system goes, this was apparently pretty low guard stuff, over 3000 ordinary people had access to this.

there is already plenty of precedence regarding leaked information that is not a security interest (but is confidential), that has gone through lower and upper courts.
basically, the courts would have to throw away plenty of already set case law to make an example of this man.



the funniest bit about this is that julian Assange, didn't set up Wiki leaks alone, he's co-founder at best, and the media whore figurehead of the organisation. he considers himself a journalist, but if he were a journalist he'd be the lowest common denominator, spreading gossip from the X-factor house of something, not changing the world in any way.

it's a shame really, because the real founders of wikileaks are supposedly unknown Chinese dissidents, that are actually spreading information about the horrible side of governments.

not this bunch of crap about what one diplomat thinks of another.

if you don't understand what I'm saying then here it is a lot more clearly.

All the information released so far on this cable gate story are childish gossip stories, what one diplomat calls another, or what one country is doing that they might not agree with or do agree with.
and the media LOVES it, they can report it, it's not changing the world, pretty much all the nations involved don't really care.

not you release something real on there, like programmes or torture, official government papers showing that people are being traffiked through a country on rendition flights. the kind of stuff that people would get really angry about, the kind of stuff that might actually change the world... the media won't touch that.




as far as I can see there are only (so far) 3 stories of importance to come out of this.
1, air assaults in Yemmen, with that countries government lying to their citizens, (not a problem for America, and no concern to Americas security.

2, Hillary Clinton ordering people to spy on UN delegates and officials, including gathering credit card details, and "any other" information that would help the government spy on delegates.

3, the fact that supposedly classified documents can leave the building.

by just like when Gary mcKinnon hacked the pentagon, the US government would rather make lots of noise and point fingers about how it's the other peoples fault than they would fix their bloody network security!
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Old 12-09-2010, 05:07 AM   #27
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I wish my country could make me proud to be called American.


Seems we never do anything since the 80's that actually helps the world.




How Pathetic.
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:21 AM   #28
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Default Re: WikiLeaks

Quote:
Originally Posted by sniperviper21 View Post
I wish my country could make me proud to be called American.

Seems we never do anything since the 80's that actually helps the world.

How Pathetic.
You know... that really made me upset to read that at first. Having served in the military, I don't like to believe that my service was not in the best interest of humanity or America... but unfortunately, that was exactly the case.

My first mission when boots hit soil in Iraq? Secure the Oil fields.

Mission in Fallujah? Here's a WikiLeak for ya... we literally had orders to kill anyone of "military fighting age" women and children included. If they were old enough to carry a gun, they were old enough to be killed. I've never shot a child (Thank God) but saw it happen. A 10-ish year old riding his bike, who had an AK47 strapped to his back was shot by snipers. Justify that.

Edit: The mission in Fallujah was a direct result of the 2004 incident where the four American contractors were burned and their bodies were strung from the bridge in the middle of the city. The United States instituted a media blackout of the area, allowed people only the ability to leave the city and blasted on radio stations and papered the city with leaflets stating that on April 10th, 2004 at Noon, the United States would systematically destroy any remaining opponents to the United States still occupying the city. If friendly to the United States, they were directed to leave Fallujah. The United States sent seven Marine Infantry Battalions (or about 6,000 - 7,000 Marines) to one city with the same mission. Anything that moves, Kill it. Prior to my actual orders, on April 9th, 2004, that's exactly what Ssgt Clark said. Then he proceeded with the mission details.

Edit2: I find it worthy mentioning the media coverage of Fallujah afterwards (about 31 days after combat start). When I finally got to go back to camp Fallujah for refit and rearm, I was watching a news cast regarding the combat mission in Fallujah. They stated that there had been a total of 39 Iraqi casualties... Lcpl Perez had more than 30 kills himself on the 50 cal. The streets were run red with blood and the news largely under-stated the facts.
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