This is why I cannot have any friends around where I live...

[Draygoes]

First of all, I will not give out the persons name. I do not want to see anything against said person, and yes, this is a small rant of sorts...

Said person will in this case be refered to as Bob, because that is the first name that came up in my head that didnt have any connection to the actual person.


I started talking to someone at the store, while waiting for Cynthia and family to finish shopping (I prefer to just sit while they do it. I dont like to shop unless I have to.), and I starting thinking that this was a good guy. Then the following conversation takes place, changing my mind.



It started out simply enough. He was talking about how many fights he had been in, and point blank bragging about it.
After a while, I was not willing to just listen to false bragging, so I asked him why he fights so much. His answer was "Because it is fun!". (I have never been in an actual fight that I would call fun, for obvious reasons.)
I asked him what was so fun about it. His responce "Its great to be able to break someones arm using a block" While I know for a fact that what he said is impossible, I just counted him as a blow hard and stopped there.
At this point, after he went on and on about the people he "Put in the hospital", someone that I know (Not using names) informed him that I am a first degree black belt in jiu-jitsu. My thoughts equaled to that of a sailor at that point.

(Telling a blow hard what type of self-defence skills I have gathered throught my lifetime has led to many fights that I wanted no part of.)



He goes on to ask, "How many people have you killed?" Someone needs to stop watching movies as far as I am concerned, but I answered NONE because that is not the point of self defence.
Then he states "Then you are not a real ninja." At this point, not only am I done, but I am ready to leave the conversation, because this guy knows nothing about proper fighting.
He asked me how many people whom I have been in a fight with where I "Won". I walked away at that point, and refused any other questions.

Winning to me means getting away without the use of violence. That means that if I can run from or talk my way out of a fight, I call that winning. No matter the end result, if you had to use violence to resolve an issue, nobody wins. I hate it when people are like that. I understand if you have no choise but to defend yourself, but getting out of it without being harmed is a personal victory, not a win.

I count it as a win when I face off against and defeat someone else of equal level in a sparing match. That requires thought, strategy, and nobody gets hurt.

Thank you very much for allowing yet another vent. Please feel free to contribute your own points in this, if you wish.

 

[strollin]

I'm not sure what this conversation has to do with the ability for you to have friends where you live.

I studied Tae-Kwon-Do in Korea when I was in the Army and stationed there. Because I tore up my knee, I didn't achieve black belt but did make red belt which was the belt just below black. IMO, I was better trained than a typical black belt from a US dojo.

In the 40 years since I studied Tae-Kwon-Do, I have NEVER been in a fight. My martial arts training gave me confidence to stand my ground but fortunately, I've never actually had to defend myself. I'm a big guy, just under 6 ft and weigh 225 so people don't usually pick fights with me anyway.

The closest thing to a fight was while I was still in the Army. A bunch of us were given the task of cleaning out a storage closet. One of the guys found 2 pr of boxing gloves and asked if anyone wanted to box. He was a big guy, 6'3" and 240 or so. No one would accept his challenge. I had never boxed but had done plenty of sparring so took him up on the challenge. We went for about 2 minutes before the Sarge came in and broke us up. Afterwards people were telling me what I had done wrong and how I should have done this or that. Personally, I thought I did pretty good since the other guy didn't lay a glove on me and he ended up with a bloody nose!

Anyway, from my point of view, you really need to be looking for a fight to get in one. There may be rare occasions where you need to defend yourself from an aggressor but those times are pretty rare.

 

[iPwn]

His answer was "Because it is fun!".

Alright... so I have to comment on this, because well, his comment isn't exactly wrong.

As a Marine, I've learned lots of things (mainly combat related), and I've been in many a 'fight for life.' Now, while I agree that there was never a time there when I was thinking "Holy crap, I should do this more often!" there is a very real chemical and physical change that occurs in the brain. Mostly (as was explained to me by a neurologist I see), the MASSIVE flood of adrenaline overloads the receptors... you're in fight or flight mode, so the brain just overloads the body with it. Enough of this causes the receptors to close. Enough of them close, and it takes an increasing amount to produce the same level of 'fun', even if we're now talking about sky diving. The receptors are closed... gotta have more. Well, now the only way to get that kind of fix is to again put yourself in a survival kind of situation. It's a real phenomena that I see with some of the guys I served with... seems like they just fight because they feel empty without that adrenaline overload. It sucks, but it might not be his fault, and he could be completely honest there.

That said, however:

"Its great to be able to break someones arm using a block"
[...]
the people he "Put in the hospital"
[...]
"How many people have you killed?"
[...]
Then he states "Then you are not a real ninja."

He's a fake.

I unfortunately have taken human life, and anyone who has (unless they're psychotic) holds only remorse for their actions. It's nothing to brag about, and even after a decade of therapy, I carry a sadness about it.

Yea, those people are easy to spot. Best thing to do is just challenge them. I realize that you're not wanting to start a fight, and good on you for that, but Bob sounds like he throws his weight around because there is no challenger.

"Hey Bob, I'll tell you what. I know a thing or two about fighting and I'm interested to see your blocking technique. How about I throw a punch, and you break my arm while blocking it.

Now, if I end up breaking your nose, we're not going to run crying to the cops are we? Who am I kidding... you're going to break my arm anyway right?

Alright, ready Bob?"

I'm guessing that's not your style, and walking away is surely much easier. For me though, people who try to act all bada-- and intimidate others need a good beat down. Perhaps being on the receiving end will help with that little ego issue of his.

 

[BikerEcho]

Winning to me means getting away without the use of violence.

That's a beautiful statement. Real men talk about it and ether comes to a conclusion or leaves. people who are not far evolved from monkeys, fight. That's how it is.

He really seam to be a fake. As iPwn said. (i am actually curious to hear why and how he have ended up taking a life. care to share iPwn?. It's ok if you don't. I understand. And sorry for asking)

I have also been having a talk to someone kinda like him. It was at a party. He was warring military uniform.
He started telling stories about the war in Iraq and stuff like that. The stories got "better and better". And i kinda suspected more and more that he was full of bullshit. Then he said something about "B. S. Christiansen".
He is a former professional soldier from the Danish special force unit called "Jægerkorpset". I have seen some interesting programs about him. This guy have "ofcause" trained with him and all that. He said something that i know was i lie. So i simply said to him. You know what, you are lying and I am done talking to you. Simple as that. I just leaved that part of the table and sat with someone more intelligent.
I asked one of his friends later on what was up with that douchebag. He said he have had a bad childhood and he is actually not even in the military.

 

[Draygoes]

I will respond to both of you at once.
Yes there is a point where the flight or fight responce happens, and yes, it feels grate to get an edge over someone who wants to harm you. But for me, it feels horrible after that. I dont wish to harm anyone, and dont like the idea of it. If you attack me or anyone that I care about, then I get involved. That rush is wonderful, but only until the combat ends. I do not like to harm anyone, that is what I was taught, and what I will always follow. More to say later, but for now, that is all.

 

[BikerEcho]

A real man leaves when a "monkey" want's to play big guy. But when that "game" involves any of your friends/family/people you care about... or even innocents, A real man should step in. It's something very different when it's about others you care about.
I saved one of my friends from a beating at once point. I am the oldest of my friends. At one point some idiot was not very nice at a party, so a friend of mine throw him out. Then later on he shows up again with one of his friends. They called out my friend to have a "talk" with him. (that talk would properly end in a fight) i was inside at that point.
One of Jonas (my friend) friends called me outside. I saw what was about to happen.
I was ready to fight, and they could see that.. But first i tried to talk them to sense. It all actually ends in the "idiot" get's us a beer and apologizes. Some people are just weird...

 

[iPwn]

I will respond to both of you at once.[...]

I think you may have misinterpreted my point...

It was not that the rush is great so it's perfectly okay to like that, and you should too...

It was that, for some, we didn't have a choice on what we were exposed to, and what effects that had. The friends I know that are in and out of jail constantly for getting into fights; they're certainly not proud or happy with their choices... they just can't seem stop that behavior. I personally used to have those issues immediately following my discharge, to the point where I would attack people in my sleep! I gave my ex-fiance the beating of a lifetime... all while sound asleep. I was in a car sleeping, and she scooted over the rest her head on my shoulder. As soon as she touched me I reacted. Not consciously either.. I awoke to her crying, bloodied and in terrible pain. Imagine my surprise when I found out I did it.

My point was simply that; for some people that's true and there's nothing they can do about it.

Not that Bob had that problem, he sounds like a school-age bully.

I was ready to fight, and they could see that.. But first i tried to talk them to sense. It all actually ends in the "idiot" get's us a beer and apologizes. Some people are just weird...

That's where I was going with my comment about asking him to do something.

I remember this guy who could have easily rolled me up and thrown me in the trash was rather heated that I called him out on some bulls---. He confronted me in a parking lot (both our group of friends watching). He walks up to me and puffs up his chest yelling about he's about to whomp on me good. I stood there, cigarette in hand and said "Why don't you just shut the ---- up before I mess up that pretty little face of yours." I took a puff and blew it in his face. He had a moment of thought then said some curse words and stormed off. A friend came up afterward and said "Holy crap dude! I thought he was going to kill you! You weren't even scared!" To which I replied "Are you kidding me?? I'm surprised I maintained bladder control!"

The point of that; people generally don't want to fight. Especially if they stand to lose anything. Sometimes it's not about beating down a bully to prove your point, it's just about standing up and displaying an 'alpha male' kind of prowess. Now, I'm certainly not one to fight either, and would not do that to every joe blow who's looking for trouble... in some circumstances though, it can be just the thing you need to shut those idiots up.

 

[Draygoes]

First of all, I would like to appoligise for talking to you both at the same time, as I was very tired, and I am sick. Now that I am awake, I can better tell the posts from the blur that they where last night. If you want to know why I am sick, please refer to my post in "Chit Chat".


Now that the information and appoligy is out of the way, lets talk specifics.

@iPwn,
I am starting with you first as you have combat experience that nobody from the normal sector can comprehend. I know that a lot of people say this, but I truly mean it. Thank you very much for your hard work and service. It takes a lot to go willingly into combat, and I am not sure that I would do the same in your position. So thank you very much for your efforts, and putting your life on the line for the rest of us.
That having been said, please allow me to explain what I mean by the "Rush". It is a fight or flight response initiated by the brain that I have been told how to control, and it works in common combat. I have the choice to engage, or do nothing, depending directly on the opponent and their actions. I do not fight to "Shut someone up." I fight if it is needed. That is what I was taught, and it is a rule that I will always follow. Words do not initiate combat from me, actions do. And you are of course right, bob was a fake.

@BikerEcho: Everything that you said is in line with what I was taught to do. You fight when you need too. I have been in my fair share of fights that I did not initate, but I had to in defence of myself or others. In fact, that is the motto that I live by. "Do not fight unless you have no choice. In otherwords, to defend yourself, or someone who needs it!". That quote is from me, but only an extense of my training. You do your best to avoid conflict, and I even show that on this board.

@Both
The man was a simple tool, whom had watched to many movies. But that goes back to my main point. If I had not walked away at the time that I did, I fully believe that it would have resulted in a fight that I did not want. I believe that he felt that he had something to prove, and I do not go there. I am glad that it ended peacefully, rather then the way that other such conversations have ended.

 

[iPwn]

It is a fight or flight response initiated by the brain that I have been told how to control, and it works in common combat.

I mean no disrespect, but that sir, is impossible. The flight or fight response is managed by the limbic system and more specifically the autonomic nervous system. The same system that regulates your heartbeat... not something you can learn to control. I imagine that you're referring to the heightened state of awareness and emotional response, which is the 'combat awareness' stage as I'm accustomed to calling it. You know something is about to happen and the body begins to get ready (heart rate, initial adrenal release, etc), but you haven't yet hit the lights out part.

Once the flight or flight goes into effect, your limbic system disables the higher processes, the ones that allow you to 'think things over.' You really have little control, hence the term "Perceived control" when discussing this reaction. On April 10, 2004 we marched on Fallujah. I can tell you what I ate that morning, where I was in the HMMWV (Humvee) and every other detail about that day. The only parts I can't remember? When the first shot went off, it all goes black after that. I have vague images and can piece together a timeline... sort of, but the intense combat phases are almost completely blank. That would be the flight or fight response doing it's job. Survive and suppress painful memories.

In the Corps, we did things over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over... you get the idea. The reason the training regime is designed this way was a very simple explanation. "You can't think when you're getting shot at, so you do things repetitively to produce muscle memory. When your lights go out, your body already knows what to do."

I'm not trying to start an argument at all, and I appreciate your appreciation for those who served as well as your mature stance with idiots like Bob. Just thought the above need a little clarity. To your comment above, that's still very commendable, as most people are slaves to their emotional responses. "Thems fightin words!" is a classes example. The littlest of emotional stimulation seems to remove all logical thought from some. This is not their fight or flight, just a lack of self control.

 

[Draygoes]

Thank you for making that clear, and I take no issue on the subject.

I imagine that you're referring to the heightened state of awareness and emotional response, which is the 'combat awareness' stage as I'm accustomed to calling it. You know something is about to happen and the body begins to get ready (heart rate, initial adrenal release, etc), but you haven't yet hit the lights out part.

Sorry, yes. That is what I was refering to, but couldnt find the words.

I'm not trying to start an argument at all, and I appreciate your appreciation for those who served as well as your mature stance with idiots like Bob. Just thought the above need a little clarity. To your comment above, that's still very commendable, as most people are slaves to their emotional responses. "Thems fightin words!" is a classes example. The littlest of emotional stimulation seems to remove all logical thought from some. This is not their fight or flight, just a lack of self control.

I agree completely, and I thank you for your kindness. In my mind there are no true words to cause anyone to harm another, only actions.
The saying "Actions speak louder than words." is more true in this sense than the way that the statement was used. I will never, and have never attacked or attack someone based on their words. To me, it really is all about actions.