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Old 03-24-2009, 05:30 PM   #31
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Default Re: Why is Communism Bad?

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Originally Posted by muz View Post
what has communism and obamma got to do with each other he is clearly not a communist
he is a socialist and socialism is hated for the same reason as communism. Loss of freedom and redistribution of weath.

I went to college so I can make my $40 an hour. That is MY money, not the governments. THEY didn't sit in my chair and do my work this week yet they get my money?


Maybe I'll just succeed from the United States...
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Old 03-24-2009, 05:37 PM   #32
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Default Re: Why is Communism Bad?

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he is a socialist and socialism is hated for the same reason as communism. Loss of freedom and redistribution of weath.

I went to college so I can make my $40 an hour. That is MY money, not the governments. THEY didn't sit in my chair and do my work this week yet they get my money?


Maybe I'll just succeed from the United States...
secede?
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Old 03-24-2009, 05:46 PM   #33
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Default Re: Why is Communism Bad?

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Originally Posted by Rubber314Chicken View Post
he is a socialist and socialism is hated for the same reason as communism. Loss of freedom and redistribution of weath.

I went to college so I can make my $40 an hour. That is MY money, not the governments. THEY didn't sit in my chair and do my work this week yet they get my money?


Maybe I'll just succeed from the United States...
so what you dont agree with paying taxes .

well wait till next time your house is on fire
or next time someone is breaking into your house
or next time your garbage gets collected
or next time you have a road to use
then tell me you still disagree with paying taxes
The money may not be the governments or in americas case congress but they have a mandate and so IMO are suitably qualified to decide what your taxes go on
Just because some of obammas policies are typical of socialist ideas dosent mean that the man himself is a socialist i mean some of the democratic parties policies i mean some of his policies in fact are capitalist such as doubling the loans to us car companies is not a socialist policy is it

As for redistribution of weath it is only greedy captialists who complain about this , there is absoloutley nothing with redistribution of wealth it is only selfish greedy capitalists who would disagree with it
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Old 03-24-2009, 05:47 PM   #34
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Default Re: Why is Communism Bad?

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that's why china is the world fastest growing economy?

Cuba?

communism states nowhere that you can't have personal possessions or ambitions, you're allowed to own your own company, you;re allowed to make money at it.

in fact lots of people in china do own their own businesses.

and businesses are allowed to grow, here is an example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifan

umm, again, Cuba, communism seems to be doing OK there.
so far as working harder to do better, the motor company that I linked above, that started as a bike repair shop and now is a global automotive manufacturer says that people do still work hard and do still better themselves.


so, that's a few myths dispelled about communism.


I believe that the main problems in/with China are it's human rights record. policies like one family one child, suppression of information, suppression of the media, mass poverty caused by the distribution of wealth, (mostly in rural areas, cities tend to be affluent).

it's not that communism is bad, and it's not that it suppresses peoples ambitions. rather that it goes against general human nature to be at the top of the pile.

however, we could say the same about capitalism, surely striving to be at the top no matter what goes against human nature to be compassionate?


the point is that no system is perfect, each has it's downfalls.


(edit: before anyone says it... yes, I know that Cuba is a small island, and that this is the only proven case where communism works, and plenty of people say that this is actually helped by various trade embargoes that should stifle the regime but have in fact furthered it. I know that communism is only ever proven to work in this one single case).
China's government is communist. Not so much its economy and the government is becoming more slack. China has long been in transition from communist to free economy.

I wouldn't use the PRC as a good example of a communist nation. North Korea would be better

If I were not so informed, I would take offense to your comments about the criticism simply because I'm chinese

I feel like the one child policy is a good idea. Though it does limits the free will of people, it is a necessary sacrifice to make. A country growing like China couldn't possibly sustain itself on its resources for much longer. There is already a huge job crisis in China right now. It's extremely hard to find decent consistent jobs. The way I see it, if they didn't limit population growth many of those that would have been born will die from overpopulation, famine, ect.

True, i disagree with China's suppression of information. But i feel like they are becoming more open as seen from Olympic games 2008

IDK what distribution of wealth your are referring to...are you saying they take from rich and give to poor so? The way I see it, corrupt politicians and rich simply get richer. Very small middle class in China. And many people that live in cities are still poor. There are either the rich or the poor
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Old 03-24-2009, 06:02 PM   #35
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Default Re: Why is Communism Bad?

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Originally Posted by nevermind1534 View Post
secede?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...secede&spell=1

Quote:
Originally Posted by muz View Post
so what you dont agree with paying taxes .

well wait till next time your house is on fire
or next time someone is breaking into your house
or next time your garbage gets collected
or next time you have a road to use
then tell me you still disagree with paying taxes
The money may not be the governments or in americas case congress but they have a mandate and so IMO are suitably qualified to decide what your taxes go on
Just because some of obammas policies are typical of socialist ideas dosent mean that the man himself is a socialist i mean some of the democratic parties policies i mean some of his policies in fact are capitalist such as doubling the loans to us car companies is not a socialist policy is it

As for redistribution of weath it is only greedy captialists who complain about this , there is absoloutley nothing with redistribution of wealth it is only selfish greedy capitalists who would disagree with it
Lets see, our roads are in total disrepair. We pay so they can clear them and I can count how many times out snow got plowed on one hand. (and the number of times I had to drive though 6" on snow is about 50x that) There are potholes EVERYWHERE.

Those are taxes that you mentioned are used for good. Now medicare (which I really don't mind too much) medicaid, unemployment, disability and the other BS the government does with out money (did you know TON of people in the gov will put their meals on the Gov's tab when they out to eat? I'm not paying for them to eat some 5 star steak) is a bunch of BS. I SAVE my money so I can afford to pay for stuff when I don't ahve a job or so I can visit a doctor. ITS BS that these people decide that they need to spend all their money and then the gov say, oh poor you, here have this money from someone who know how to manage their money.
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Old 03-24-2009, 06:41 PM   #36
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Default Re: Why is Communism Bad?

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Originally Posted by Rubber314Chicken View Post
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...secede&spell=1



Lets see, our roads are in total disrepair. We pay so they can clear them and I can count how many times out snow got plowed on one hand. (and the number of times I had to drive though 6" on snow is about 50x that) There are potholes EVERYWHERE.

Those are taxes that you mentioned are used for good. Now medicare (which I really don't mind too much) medicaid, unemployment, disability and the other BS the government does with out money (did you know TON of people in the gov will put their meals on the Gov's tab when they out to eat? I'm not paying for them to eat some 5 star steak) is a bunch of BS. I SAVE my money so I can afford to pay for stuff when I don't ahve a job or so I can visit a doctor. ITS BS that these people decide that they need to spend all their money and then the gov say, oh poor you, here have this money from someone who know how to manage their money.
Complain about the state of the roads all you want however at least you have a road to drive on unlike some people


I have to say one issue which i fundamentally disagree with you on here is disability , my mum is through no fault of her own disabled in such a way that means there is a lot of jobs that she is restricted from doing(she has very serious back problems) and so she does have a job but she dosent work very long hours at that job and so her earnings are very low , and so why shouldnt she be able to get disability money from the government to pay for the things she needs to have as normal a life as possible , there are thousands if not millions of people in your country that cannot work due to a disability that is no fault of their own and why should thay have to suffer financially for something that is no fault of their own

Medical aid i cannot say i agree either put that is coming from someone in a country where we have a nationalised health service which everyone is entitled to at the point of need and i say why shouldnt we have a national health service to pay for people , there are still some things in this country which are not free on our nhs such as dental care for those who earn over a certain ammount and prescriptions for people earning over a certain ammount why should you be denied vital medical care just because of how much you earn . That is a very classist society because its a well known fact that how much your parents earn and what class you where born in directly affects how much you earn in later life . People didnt chose to be born into their poor background did they and so why should they be penalised in later life for not being given the right oppertunities

Unenployment i cant say i agree there either , depending on circumstances . If people dont want to work however they dont have a valid reason for not wanting to work then they shouldnt get a penny i agree but there are people in unemplyment and homelessness who would do anything to get a job but cant get a job for various reasons . I know people who volunteer at a homeless shelter who say the people there would give absoloutley anything for a job but because they are homeless they cant get a job si just making a stark generalisation that everyone that is unemplyed is lazy and dosent want a job is ignorant IMO and just avoiding the issue at hand . I agree with the theoretical system in our country where if you can prove that you are looking for a job then you are entitled to some government money because getting a job isnt the easiest thing in the world sometimes

I bet your one of the people who dosent agree with the same widening participation scheme aimed at working class people that means that next year i will hopefully be going to a top university in england even though my parents never went to university and normally i would not even have considered applying to that uni because i would have considered it out of my reach
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Old 03-24-2009, 07:35 PM   #37
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Default Re: Why is Communism Bad?

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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...secede&spell=1



Lets see, our roads are in total disrepair. We pay so they can clear them and I can count how many times out snow got plowed on one hand. (and the number of times I had to drive though 6" on snow is about 50x that) There are potholes EVERYWHERE.

Those are taxes that you mentioned are used for good. Now medicare (which I really don't mind too much) medicaid, unemployment, disability and the other BS the government does with out money (did you know TON of people in the gov will put their meals on the Gov's tab when they out to eat? I'm not paying for them to eat some 5 star steak) is a bunch of BS. I SAVE my money so I can afford to pay for stuff when I don't ahve a job or so I can visit a doctor. ITS BS that these people decide that they need to spend all their money and then the gov say, oh poor you, here have this money from someone who know how to manage their money.
^ I think we as society should find the fine line between the two sides.

We cannot totally ignore our fellow man, but we cannot allow it to a point where others become dependent

Medicare and medicaid i believe should be universal. But this isn't premium coverage. Just because you have medicaid doesn't mean you'll get a free heart transplant or brain surgery. It should cover the absolute minimum. And older retiree's definitely need medical coverage seeing how many don't work and no longer can afford it.

Disability is obvious. If you truly are disabled then the money is well spent. But we should exclude the many people that ridiculously claim they are disabled because they have a drug problem or alcohol abuse. Common sense

I never heard of government workers putting stuff on the gov tabs. If you're referring to teachers, social workers, office workers, its probably not true. Now if they are congressmen and senators and governors, then it is believable. I don't really care because there's not many of them.

Def agree with people who spend more than they can afford just so they can be bailed out.
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Old 03-24-2009, 07:47 PM   #38
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Default Re: Why is Communism Bad?

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I never heard of government workers putting stuff on the gov tabs. If you're referring to teachers, social workers, office workers, its probably not true. Now if they are congressmen and senators and governors, then it is believable. I don't really care because there's not many of them.
I agree that I was a bit over the top, but I know for a fact that there are government workers that go out to eat at a nice restaurant and then the gov will pick up the tab because it was a "business" meeting. And it is Congressmen and senators. And those are $50 steaks and I do care because it adds up.

Hillary did something similar. $20K of campaign money spent on steak dinners. I'd hate for my contribution to a campaign be used to buy 5 star steak.
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Old 03-24-2009, 07:57 PM   #39
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Many corporations do the same thing. Many fly first class and eat 4 stars all for free. Its just the way that stuff works. I know its unfair, but if you ever get to the top in gov or a company, you'll be extended the same privileges. Though its a complete waste of money, the amount is still quite small. They may spend 20k, but to the government, even millions are just peanuts
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Old 03-24-2009, 08:02 PM   #40
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I agree that I was a bit over the top, but I know for a fact that there are government workers that go out to eat at a nice restaurant and then the gov will pick up the tab because it was a "business" meeting. And it is Congressmen and senators. And those are $50 steaks and I do care because it adds up.

Hillary did something similar. $20K of campaign money spent on steak dinners. I'd hate for my contribution to a campaign be used to buy 5 star steak.
whilst i agree that politicians shouldnt be cossting the taxpayer ridculous ammounts of money on things like this if they are genuinley on congressional duties ie holding meetings i thiink the taxpayer should be the one paying but its difficult to strike a balence between costing the taxpayer too much and holding your meeting in mcdonalds which im sure we will all agree is an absurdity
I think its a decision that the congressmen and women find difficult because they arent in touch with the people they are representing and a $50 steak to them dosent seem like a lot of money but obviously to millions of hard working americans who are strugling through the recession they do see that as an unneeded luxary

If however they are just goig out for a meal with their family that is what they are paid a salary for

Its just like recently the atendees of the G8 summit in japan came under scrutiny for eating a luxorious 7 course meal when one of the the issues they where discussiong where the food crisis in Africa its difficult to strike a balence and the people trying to strike the balence arent in touch with the ordinary tax payer
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