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Old 07-18-2006, 05:33 AM   #71
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Default Re: Whats worse

To say smoking one joint a week will kill you over time, but alcohol is safe is nothing short of an all out lie, or just a simple misunderstanding of the facts at hand.

Alcohol will kill your brain cells and over time will kill you, even when used resonsibly it is still doing harm to you,
so suggesting that responsible amounts is really neither here nor there, each will damage you in the first instance, it's just the amount of risk that happens afterwards.

having a glass of wine with your dinner will damage both your brain and your liver, but as someone pointed out before, damage does not mean kill, it means damage, and the body is capable of recovering from the damage.

in the same sense smoking pot will damage your lung tissue and will damage your brain tissue, but that it not to say that if a single molecule of carbon monoxide enters your lungs that it kills them, the lung tissues do recover, and assuming that your lungs are mostly healthy tar can also be removed from your lungs by your lungs.
in essance we breath in a huge amount of nasties each day that are trapped and filtered and disposed of by our lungs, that's why we have phlem.

the simple facts are that both damage you, both used irresponsibly will end up killing you with some horrible disease, but when used responsibly it is possible to have a fulfilling life with either, (or both).

It is all about percieved risk and the worthwhile aspect of it...

for example I used to smoke when I was bored, like waiting for a bus or something, and at the end of the day that was stupid, I'd never smoke any other time, only if I was bored, I wasn't addicted to cigarettes, and I could have killed my boredom playing a game on my phone, or reading, or some other more worthwhile activity.

however when it come to drink and drugs it's a different story, I don't drink a lot and I don't take a lot of drugs, however I do find both reasonably social activities that I do whilst I'm having fun.
(note I sid whilst I'm having fun and not in order to have fun).
both are activities that I would tend to do with my friends, however that's not to say that it's something the entier group of my friends do, I have friends who don't drink, and friends who don't do drugs. I can be with anyone, doing anything, (or nothing), and it won't distract from my fun. or from the fun that my friends are having either.

the point is that I know that there is a risk to my health (I don't assume that I am invinsible), But I do percieve that that risk is worthwhile.

I have no intentions of taking any other drugs. and I fail to see this gateway argument. ()frankly it's just wild speculation made by people who don't understand the phycology of the people who are taking drugs).
in response to that I've always said that I don't know anyone who has ever smoked a joint without first smoking a cigarette, so do we now say that cigarettes are gateway drug to heroin? everybody just laughs, but by the same logic that pot is called a gateway drug then surely cigarettes are as well?

Besides all of that there are other ways of taking pot, for example you could eat it, and it has been shown that in small amount canabiss does actually help to protect and imporve the lining of your stomach.
(now I'll do something that is kind of unprecidented in arguments on forums and actually point to some scientific research.
http://www.bath.ac.uk/news/articles/...ibd010805.html
(anyone got a pharmacy/pharmacology lab at home and a government grant to research care to disagree then I'll gladly listen! until then all we have is a few vague, (often misquoted) sources about cannabis! it doesn't take a lot to find evidence against either).

given the evidence above can we say that canabis is safe depending on the way that it is ingested?
-note, I know that that statement is clearly miquoting the facts, but so is the statement about red wine. there is no reason to drink red wine, you could just as easily take asprin, and only then if your diet is so poor that you need your blood to be thinned!

@Dj-Chris, you say that you used weed for two years,
regardless of your take on the issue now, at the time it must have seemed at least a little bit worthwhile, else you wouldn't have been doing it? -or were you doing it to be a part of a crowd?
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Old 07-18-2006, 06:11 AM   #72
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Thumbs down Re: Whats worse

My God will you never learn guys ???, a practically identical thread in a very short space of time, where is the sense???, if you remember, the last one was closed, due to members pressure, & now this, 70+ posts in only two days, & arguments starting to happen already, & don't tell me they're "only discussions"!, well, here's my well-worn warning again, if this one escalates into flaming, it will be closed, I won't ask this time, it'll be based on my own judgement.
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Old 07-18-2006, 06:17 AM   #73
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Default Re: Whats worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nik00117
THe most interseting result that use of alcohol, and harder drugs tends to decline when weed is legalized.

Gee I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that weed was made legal.

Also the overcrowding in jail, we could free up 25% of the space in Jail with legalization of weed. I read a figure somewhere that said 25% of popele in jail are in for non-violent use of majurina related offesenses only.
i don't mean to keep stirring this up but people are alot different than they used to be. i personally suspect that the use of weed would go up alot more now than it would have 20 years ago just because of how people are today.

also i don't mean to be anal but i'd like to see a source on your 25% jail space because of weed. that sounds rediculous
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Old 07-18-2006, 06:52 AM   #74
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Default Re: Whats worse

Id say a strong number,no 25%,but still around 15 or so.
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Old 07-18-2006, 06:55 AM   #75
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Default Re: Whats worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brookfield
My God will you never learn guys ???, a practically identical thread in a very short space of time, where is the sense???, if you remember, the last one was closed, due to members pressure, & now this, 70+ posts in only two days, & arguments starting to happen already, & don't tell me they're "only discussions"!, well, here's my well-worn warning again, if this one escalates into flaming, it will be closed, I won't ask this time, it'll be based on my own judgement.
As yet, I've seen no flames, and nothing that is even comming close.
I don't see to the point or reason for this warning.
the arguments started at the first post, since it was a question there will always be some for and some against. that's how discussions work. we're not trying to be radical or lifechanging or anything... just having a quiet discussion.

it's true that there are more pot based arrests that convictions.
Quote:
Marijuana generates more arrests than any other illicit drug. Much of that doesn't have anything to do with law enforcement specifically targeting drug infractions. Much of that is literally somebody's driving a little funny, gets pulled over and the cop smells the marijuana smoke or sees the baggie on the seat. There are relatively few police officers out there who are spending their time trying to catch people using marijuana. More in suburban and rural areas obviously than in urban areas, but marijuana enforcement isn't a very high priority, it's just that there's a lot of marijuana smoking.
Quote:
i'd like to see a source on your 25% jail space because of weed. that sounds rediculous
indeed thise source suggest that the total number of drug users in american prison are something like 50%, but of that only 10% are in for marijuana related offences.

Quote:
The federal prison system is heavily oriented toward drug offenses, somewhat more than half of all federal prisoners are in for drug offenses. And some noticeable fraction of that is marijuana. But still, if you look at the overall burden of drug law enforcement and drug related imprisonment, marijuana doesn't count very high. These are all guesses, no one really has good numbers. My best guess is that there are about 400,000 people in prison or jail at any one time for drug offenses: possession, not very much possession, some possession, distribution offenses. Of that something less than 10%--30,000 or 40,000 people--are in prison for marijuana offenses.
so we're actually looking at some 3-5% of the total prison population, (though I esitamte that was a conservative guess), it still nowhere near 25%!)

the article goes on to talk about other drugs (specifically cocaine, but I'm including that bit here because it mentions alcohol
Quote:
And, yet, what to do about cocaine is really the big drug policy question, unless you're courageous enough to address the problem of what to do about alcohol, which accounts for more violence, more crime, more sickness, more death and more arrests than all other drugs combined.
edit - I forgot to include that source.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...s/kleiman.html
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Old 07-18-2006, 07:36 AM   #76
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Default Re: Whats worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brookfield
My God will you never learn guys ???, a practically identical thread in a very short space of time, where is the sense???, if you remember, the last one was closed, due to members pressure, & now this, 70+ posts in only two days, & arguments starting to happen already, & don't tell me they're "only discussions"!, well, here's my well-worn warning again, if this one escalates into flaming, it will be closed, I won't ask this time, it'll be based on my own judgement.
naaahh this thread is great, you gotta leave it
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Old 07-18-2006, 07:44 AM   #77
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Default Re: Whats worse

Brookfield doesn't like the topic thats why he gave the warning.

ANd as for the 25% figure, I read it sometime ago in a book or somthing. Even a ocnservite figure of 3 to 5% is a signifcant ammount of poeple that are imprissoned for nothing more then smoking weed. Which heh IHO is quite sad.
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Old 07-18-2006, 07:49 AM   #78
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Default Re: Whats worse

well i do think that people should be fined for getting caught with weed instead of jailed. as well as the weed being taken away(forgot how to spell the big word for that) if they get caught multiple times then get a warrant to search their house still would be better than jail because that costs too much money
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Old 07-18-2006, 08:34 AM   #79
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Default Re: Whats worse

I say legalize it, tax it, and use it. Watch America's drug problem become a lot less serious.

The defination of insanity is attemping the same thing over and over again and expecting a different results.
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Old 07-18-2006, 10:11 AM   #80
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Default Re: Whats worse

or a lot worse...

I've always believed that a lot of a countries debt could be solved by leagalising a popular drug,
but as the article that I linked to suggests, the problem with leagalising it is that you are then faced with issues, 1, what age restrictions (if any) do you put on it, 2, how do you stop children getting it? I mean kids get beer all the time, 3, who gets the profit,

the biggest trouble with generating a profit from it is that people are trying to sell an addictive substance, I mean it's in the governments interest (if they are collecting tax) to have a nation of addicts,
if a company is collecting tax then they are going to try and sell as much as they can, regardless of the consequence.

(that is to say if you leagalise it the drug problem will become a lot bigger rather than smaller).
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