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Old 07-20-2006, 03:58 PM   #101
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Default Re: Whats worse

Quote:
I would say weed is worse because:
1. It's illegal
2. It's more addictive
the problem is that you can't say that for sure, both are addictive, but there are no credible studies done to show which is more addictive! aside from anything else it'd be nearly impossible to get ethical approval for such a trial!

Quote:
I realize you could argue the same thing for alcohol
I think thats the entier centre of this discussion... I mean weed does impair your abilities, and it's not a good idea to drive stoned. but then weed doesn't really make people get up and do things! I mean you'll pretty much never see people being sick in the streets cause they are too stoned, you'll never see people peenig in the streets cause they are too stoned and you'll never see people starting fights with strangers cause they are too stoned!

Quote:
What must be realised and taken into account here is the fact that people who are predisposed to mental illness often tend to develop schizophrenic tendencies when smoking marijuana, correspondingly people with an addictive personality will become dependent on either drug (alcohol or marijuana).
But then people who are mentally pre-disposed to something can do anything, I mean, yes, the effects of marijuana on the brain can't be a good one, but can it really be that bad, and in that situation are we takling long term abuse or occasional use?

surely someone with an addictive personality can get adicted to text messageing, online shopping, gambling, self harm, eating, not eating, sorting colours, tidying up etc... i's be impossible to ileagalise everything that anyone could get addicted to!
also (hate to come back to it), but when we talk about dangers of each how is the alcohol injected? does that make a difference? I mean there are plenty of ways to inject pot, and also plenty of way to get alcohol into your system.(such as injection or breathing vapour). each of those are physically far worse for you and get a reaction that is far quicker and much stronger than with just drinking it.
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:02 PM   #102
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Default Re: Whats worse

Each of these drugs have their evils, and they have very few benefits, cannabis has shown to be effective for sufferers of MS, and other neurological conditions, but there are also studies which show there is a clear link between the use of cannabis, and mental illness.

Cannabis & Mental Health

The difference is that it needs to be controlled, it needs to be taken in a manner which is prescribed by health professionals. I have heard many arguments for the legalisation of cannabis, that it will reduce crime etc, that it does not lead to the use of harder drugs, but when it comes to it, crime isn't caused by the users of cannabis, it is caused by the those that are hooked on cocaine, heroin, that are so addicted that they will be willing to turn to crime to seek enough money for their next fix. In my opinion there will be very little decrease in crime.

The warfare that exists over drugs isn't caused by the dealers of grass, skunk or hash, its the dealers that fight over the patches to sell the harder drugs.

That being said, I have heard comments that cannabis isn't addictive, there is again research that shows that cannabis is an addictive substance a link to a decent essay on the subject can be shown below;

Is Cannabis Addictive?

That being said alcohol is also a very dangerous drug, billions are spent each year treating the effects of alcohol abuse, thousands of lives are lost because some idiot thinks it safe for them to drive home, but the difference is alcohol is legal, cannabis isn't.

In anything we do, if we do it to excess we will cause harm to ourselves, even drinking water to excess will kill you, if you do it in moderation then the harmful effects of both alcohol and cannabis which is permenantly drummed into our heads will cause serious and long term damage.

So in my opinion both drugs are just as bad as each other, they both have harmful and long term side effects if abused if done in moderation, and not abused neither drug has much danger of causing long term health problems, in fact both drugs in small quantities are advocated as being a treatment to specific ailments such as alcohol thinning blood, etc and my previous reference to cannabis and the easing of the symptoms of MS.

I don't think that cannabis should be legalised but I think it should be available on prescription.

So to which is worse, neither, they both have different and similar benefits and negatives

Edit: Root you posted that as I was writing this, but I agree with a lot of what you have said in your post
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:17 PM   #103
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Default Re: Whats worse

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That being said, I have heard comments that cannabis isn't addictive,
I didn't say it wasn't addictive...
I said that there was no studies to show whether i was more or less addictive than alcohol.
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:23 PM   #104
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Default Re: Whats worse

Your not actually addicted to the substance, your addicted to the feeling, your body gets used to that feeling and wants more of it, therefor reaches out towards the substance. Thats why if someone smokes weed for a long time, but then starts doing more powerful drugs, they are no longer addicted to the weed feeling, they are addicted to the more powerful "different drug" feeling.

In short. Weed is not addictive, but feeling good at the risk of your braincells is, whether its alcohol or weed.
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:32 PM   #105
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Default Re: Whats worse

Guys, I think that you should read all of root's posts,& read them through thoroughly, every word, he is very profound, & very unbiased, I should know, I'm still smarting smarting from some comments he made about me, *ouch!*, it wouldn't hurt if we all took a leaf out of his book, sorry if I've embarrassed you mate!
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:49 PM   #106
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Default Re: Whats worse

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Originally Posted by root
the problem is that you can't say that for sure, both are addictive, but there are no credible studies done to show which is more addictive! aside from anything else it'd be nearly impossible to get ethical approval for such a trial!

Say i had even a strong craving for ice cream, would i go out in the middle of the night to find an "Ice Cream Dealer" and pay rediculous amounts for nothing but ice, cream, and vanilla extract?

No i would not, and I know no one wants to be an ass.

But we can safely assume that the level of addiction to the feeling is above that of a craving, there for being able to be deemed an addiction.

P.S. I prefer waiting till a thread has been in circulation for a while to get into it, because i hate being posted over there for leaving my opinion not being able to be noticed/argued!
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:54 PM   #107
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Default Re: Whats worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
I didn't say it wasn't addictive...
I said that there was no studies to show whether i was more or less addictive than alcohol.
That comment wasn't actually directed at your post, as when I started writing the post you had not posted yours, I agree there is distinct lack of medical studies about the addictiveness of marijuana, but I also think having seen how difficult it has been for friends to kick the habit, I would say that there is some definate addictive qualities.

As to wether it is more or less addictive then alcohol, I don't know, both drugs give very different effects, I also like a song by the Streets, don't know if those in the US will know of it,

The Irony of it all

and I'm a law abider
There's nothing I like more than getting fired up on beer
And when the weekends here I to exercise my right to get paralytic and fight
Good bloke fairly
But I get well leery when geezers look at me funny
Bounce 'em round like bunnies
I'm likely to cause mischief
Good clean grief you must believe and I ain't no thief.
Law abiding and all, all legal.
And who cares about my liver when it feels good
Wwhat you need is some real manhood.
Rasher Rasher Barney and Kasha putting peoples backs up.
Public disorder, I'll give you public disorder.
I down eight pints and run all over the place
Spit in the face of an officer
See if that bothers you cause I never broke a law in my life
Someday I'm gonna settle down with a wife
Come on lads lets have another fight

Eh hello. My names Tim and I'm a criminal,
In the eyes of society I need to be in jail
For the choice of herbs I inhale.
This ain't no wholesale operation
Just a few eighths and some Playstations my's vocation
I pose a threat to the nation
And down the station the police hold no patience
Let's talk space and time
I like to get deep sometimes and think about Einstein
And Carl Jung And old Kung Fu movies I like to see
Pass the hydrator please
Yeah I'm floating on thin air.
Going to Amsterdam in the New Year - top gear there
Cause I taker pride in my hobby
Home made bongs using my engineering degree
Dear Leaders, please legalise weed for these reasons.

Like I was saying to him.
I told him: "Top with me and you won't leave."
So I smacked him in the head and downed another Carling
Bada Bada Bing for the lad's night.
Mad fight, his face's a sad sight.
Vodka and Snake Bite.
Going on like a right geez, he's a twat,
Shouldn't have looked at me like that.
Anyway I'm an upstanding citizen
If a war came along I'd be on the front line with em.
Can't stand crime either them hooligans on heroin.
Drugs and criminals those thugs on the penny coloured will be the downfall of society
I've got all the anger pent up inside of me.

You know I don't see why I should be the criminal
How can something with no recorded fatalities be illegal
And how many deaths are there per year from alcohol
I just completed Gran Tourismo on the hardest setting
We pose no threat on my settee
Ooh the pizza's here will someone let him in please
"We didn't order chicken, Not a problem we'll pick it out
I doubt they meant to mess us about
After all we're all adults not louts."
As I was saying, we're friendly peaceful people
We're not the ones out there causing trouble.
We just sit in this hazy bubble with our quarters
Discussing how beautiful Gail Porter is.
MTV, BBC 2, Channel 4 is on until six in the morning.
Then at six in the morning the sun dawns and it's my bedtime.

Causing trouble, your stinking rabble
Boys saying I'm the lad who's spoiling it
You're on drugs it really bugs me when people try and tell me I'm a thug
Just for getting drunk
I like getting drunk
Cause I'm an upstanding citizen
If a war came along I'd be on the front line with em.

Now Terry you're repeating yourself
But that's okay drunk people can't help that.
A chemical reaction inside your brain causes you to forget what you're saying.

What. I know exactly what I'm saying
I'm perfectly sane
You stinking student lameo
Go get a job and stop robbing us of our taxes.

Err, well actually according to research
Government funding for further education pales in insignificance
When compared to how much they spend on repairing
Leery drunk people at the weekend
In casualty wards all over the land.

Why you cheeky little swine come here
I'm gonna batter you. Come here.

Anyway, I always find the tune words of that quite amusing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xguynameddavex
Your not actually addicted to the substance, your addicted to the feeling, your body gets used to that feeling and wants more of it, therefor reaches out towards the substance. Thats why if someone smokes weed for a long time, but then starts doing more powerful drugs, they are no longer addicted to the weed feeling, they are addicted to the more powerful "different drug" feeling.

In short. Weed is not addictive, but feeling good at the risk of your braincells is, whether its alcohol or weed.
In regards to not being actually addictive to the substance, if the substance is what specifically causes the feeling, then you are in fact addicted to the substance, every drug gives different effects, and may also affect people in a different way, you crave the feeling, therefore you crave the substance that causes that feeling.

It is well known that nearly all drugs it is the feeling that it causes that is addictive, for example, take a tab of LSD and have a bad trip then you are unlikely to take another, but take a tab and have a wicked time, and really buzz of the sensations, and you are going to seek out that feeling again. Therefore more likely to take that substance again
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Old 07-20-2006, 05:05 PM   #108
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Default Re: Whats worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlasseyeUK
In regards to not being actually addictive to the substance, if the substance is what specifically causes the feeling, then you are in fact addicted to the substance, every drug gives different effects, and may also affect people in a different way, you crave the feeling, therefore you crave the substance that causes that feeling.

It is well known that nearly all drugs it is the feeling that it causes that is addictive, for example, take a tab of LSD and have a bad trip then you are unlikely to take another, but take a tab and have a wicked time, and really buzz of the sensations, and you are going to seek out that feeling again. Therefore more likely to take that substance again
A bit contradicting, but i get what your trying to say, i thought about that long and hard as well, but came up with this contradiction.

It is altogether the feeling that you are addicted to, not the drug, please read my reasoning:

If it was that even part the drug you are addicted to, then upon trying a newer, stronger drug, you would still be addicted to the other drug, but you are not, you become addicted to the newer stronger feeling and forget completely about the other drug.

Now, that is proof that you are not addicted to the drug, your addicted to the feeling, because once you have that newer, stronger, better feeling you know that the other feeling is obsolete, almost like raising your drug "standards."
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Old 07-20-2006, 05:17 PM   #109
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Default Re: Whats worse

Quote:
Originally Posted by xguynameddavex
A bit contradicting, but i get what your trying to say, i thought about that long and hard as well, but came up with this contradiction.

It is altogether the feeling that you are addicted to, not the drug, please read my reasoning:

If it was that even part the drug you are addicted to, then upon trying a newer, stronger drug, you would still be addicted to the other drug, but you are not, you become addicted to the newer stronger feeling and forget completely about the other drug.

Now, that is proof that you are not addicted to the drug, your addicted to the feeling, because once you have that newer, stronger, better feeling you know that the other feeling is obsolete, almost like raising your drug "standards."
I recognise your argument behind your comments, and it did make me think about what you have said, I think this is one of those areas where it is going to come down to individual views on the subject of addiction.
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Old 07-20-2006, 05:22 PM   #110
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Touche, It gets left at the opinions of two stubborn members, as usual! lol. I just like these debates because it gives me a chance to put my own opinion into an organized form in my head. Also, I couldn't tell you how many times i've used my posts on here as records for reports at my school devry, ive written an entire paper from my opinion in the legalize drinking age at 16 thread, look it up, it was a good argument.
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