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Old 09-28-2005, 09:15 PM   #11
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Default Re: waste of time and money?

I personally think that the International Space Station is just going to be the new Mir Station. NASA uses up so much money every time we launch a Space Shuttle...it takes forever just for that damn Crawler to get to the launch pad. The Russians take what? About 45 minutes to prepare the next rocket to launch. And they've done so safely too...
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Old 09-28-2005, 09:29 PM   #12
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NASA's going backwards. Stupid management. I can't beleive they're actually thinking about bring back the old Saturn V rockets and the command module. I mean come on....we're in the 21st century for crying out loud and we have all these advanced technology made available compared to what NASA used back in the 60s.

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Old 09-28-2005, 09:54 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kage
What they need to make is a gravity maker for space. Because one thing that would stop me staying somewhere in space is the fact that your always floating, and after a while, your bones, etc weaken because they have no use to support you.

So, they need to do something about that...if it was possible, that is.
Gravity can be simulated very simply. If you have a large, rotating spindle, the acceleration would be against the outer walls from the inside simulating a sort of gravity. Another variation is a giant spinning circle (think Deep Space 9).
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Old 09-28-2005, 10:06 PM   #14
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or Armageddon where the Russian space station did a spin to simulate gravity.
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Old 09-28-2005, 10:39 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by ~mr mixx~
unless it benifits them, and them meaning the government or the army.
thats totally right. the US gov't wants the high ground. it all comes down to them wanting to controll everything. I think the main reason they are going back to the moon is to make sure nobody else decides to "claim" the moon. China has plans to go to the moon and i'm guessing that scares the crap out of the US.
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Old 09-29-2005, 11:54 AM   #16
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Default Re: waste of time and money?

Kewl, yeah, that'd be one way of simulating it i guess, but I guess that'd use alot of energy? Though in space, you'd need one push, and it'd keep going theroretically.

Though how fast would it have to be spinning?
Thats not how the earth creates gravity is it? by spinning around? Or is it?

Have they ever tried to simulate gravity then in space?
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Old 09-29-2005, 02:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kage
Kewl, yeah, that'd be one way of simulating it i guess, but I guess that'd use alot of energy? Though in space, you'd need one push, and it'd keep going theroretically.

Though how fast would it have to be spinning?
Thats not how the earth creates gravity is it? by spinning around? Or is it?

Have they ever tried to simulate gravity then in space?
Earth's gravity is created by the size of the planet. The spinning of the planet is actually making us want to fly off, but the gravity keeps us on the ground. Every physical object possesses gravity. That's right, your laundry basket wants to cling to you right now. It's dependent on mass, though. Since Earth is so massive, it has a lot of gravity. The moon has a lot of gravity, too, but it's only about one-eighth of Earth's since it's so much smaller.

Now in the situation I described, there is a centripetal acceleration that always points toward the center of rotation. Your momentum keeps you on the outside walls, though. Some people call this centrifugal force, but it's not a real force - it's just your momentum. Think Newton's first law: Any object in motion stays in motion, and any object at rest stays at rest. This holds true if no forces act on the object. So what's happening is your body wants to travel in a straight line tangential to the rotation, but the wall is a force that holds you in as it rotates.

As for how fast it would have to spin, that depends on how much gravity you want. The faster it spins, the faster your body wants to fly off tangentially which, in turn, simulates a greater acceleration. Here's a little math, I hope it isn't too confusing:

a = (v^2)/r
Where a is centripetal acceleration, v is velocity, and r is radius. Remember, centripetal acceleration always points toward the center of rotation. The centripetal acceleration is being created by the outer wall pushing on you, so this centripetal acceleration would be the perceived "gravity."

So let's assume the radius of the spindle that is rotating is 100m. If you want to simulate Earth's gravity, just plug in the numbers. (Earth's gravity is scientifically accepted to be ~9.81 m/s^2, but this number varies depending on where on Earth you are and your altitude, among other things. For this calculation, I will use 9.81 m/s^2.) Plugging in the numbers, you get

v = sqrt(a*r) = sqrt(9.81*100) = 31.32m/s

So, to simulate Earth's gravity on this particular spindle, it would have to spin at 112.75km/hr or 70.06mi/hr. Keep in mind that this velocity is the tangential velocity. The radial velocity would be 0.3132rad/s at the greatest radius (tangential velocity divided by the radius which gives the radial velocity in radians per second). The difference between tangential velocity and radial velocity is that tangential is the velocity of a point if it were to keep going in a straight line. Radial velocity measures how many radians a point traverses in a certain time. (Radians are like degrees of a circle, just a different unit.)

Sorry for the physics lesson, I just find this sort if stuff quite interesting. Anyway, I'm not sure if they've actually tried this, but I don't think so.
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Old 09-29-2005, 03:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: waste of time and money?

Kewl, though I didn't get those equations one bit, though I love Physics.

So theroretically, they could do it to simulate gravity.
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Old 09-29-2005, 05:26 PM   #19
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Default Re: waste of time and money?

[QUOTE=TRDCorolla]NASA's going backwards. Stupid management. I can't beleive they're actually thinking about bring back the old Saturn V rockets and the command module. I mean come on....we're in the 21st century for crying out loud and we have all these advanced technology made available compared to what NASA used back in the 60s.

Baby Boomers rock

The Saturn V rocket can lift more wieght per pound of fuel than any other rocket built by the US so far. So it makes good sense to reach back to a design that works than to spend the time and money coming up with a new one.
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Old 09-29-2005, 05:36 PM   #20
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Going to the moon this time is not pointless. The mineral resources alone is one of the reasons we're headed back. Hydrogen helium oxygen neon argon carbon, all there for the taking. To make fuel for mars and other deep space missions. Lower gravity will allow larger vessles to leave from lunar orbit with less effort. Along with testing habatats for humans to live and work in.
As for sending robots I would agree a first visit would be best served by a robotic partner with a human in orbit above. But the final observations will have to be done by human hands and a human mind on the site. There is nothing faster or more able to alter thier plan than a human. No machine will ever come close to the human hands manual dexterity. Not taking anything away from the Mars rovers but the problem with distance=lag time, is a major reason man needs to be out there.
The shuttle and the space station are doing research on more than just how to get up there and stay up there. There are a lot of privately funded programs going on that are looking in to medicine and metalurgey that will advance these fields by leaps and bounds. But the adventure is just begining. We have to stay on the path and not waiver from it.
I'm sorry Shawn O'Keefe left the program. He has the adventureous spirit. I feel in my heart no one will be able to see the path as he did and will be able to lead like he did.
And Nic00117 you don't really think those lost in the space shuttles and the other fatal accidents over the years really wanted to die? Any life that is lost in the space program is felt by all of us that want to see us, the human race, reach the gold ring out there in the depths of space.
Even one life lost is not acceptable. But they continue to step up to the plate. Knowing full well they might not come back, or even make it up there. Now that takes resolve and courage. But the fact they take the risks doesn't mean thier loss will be acceptable.
Now Alvino about the crawler and why it takes so long to get from the vertical assembly building to the pad. Ah a side note for those of us that have walked throught that building. Did you know in the summer it rains inside the building? With thunder and lighting. I got to see it with my own eyes. But the reason the stack as it's called takes so long is it is so heavy. And it's shape and size makes it unstable to move at any faster speeds.
So for the most part I think if we get the issues of safety balanced out with a more robust hardware then look out.
Warp speed Mr. LaForge
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