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Old 01-30-2005, 12:13 PM   #41
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Default Re: Sunday's Election

And the moronism continues...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Kalthorn
Did anybody here say the Iraqi Election wouldn't work? Success however... is a little premature. People voting is not success; especially considering most of the people who voted aren't the people you're trying to get on your side, they're people already on your side. I could have told you the election would work - around hundreds of thousands of troops its hard for it not to.
WRONG WRONG WRONG!

There has been 70% turnout and people have got out to vote in great masses. This is a big success. There is more work to be done, and I never said this was a solve all solution to the problems. You just don't understand do you? You can't just seem to get the basics can you? You just won't accept things as they are.

Quote:
Success however, is not achieved yet; until the people of Iraq are living together in peace and prosperity as the majority wish there will be no success. That was afterall the goal of the War? It wasn't just to give them an election. I, as I said, don't believe such Success will work until there has been a serious Civil War, and the differences are fought out of them until they all agree. Again; how would you think the British Army and Navy stopping the American Civil War and setting up a British type Government in America; getting everybody who agreed with it, holding an election knowing nobody else would vote, proclaiming that victory and leaving American to be. America would still have had a Civil War, just later. All the War did was postpone a Civil War and remove Saddam Hussein who it wasn't our job to remove.
Success hasn't been achieved, but that is the inevitable way. Success will be achieved because it appears things are going on the right path. Until the people of Iraq living together in peace and prosperity? Apparently they want and they voiced that in the election. They will form a government and get a just and lasting peace. I just don't think you understand the facts and you make a mountain load of stupid statements. I'm just sick of your stupidity. Have you ever taken any political based courses ion school because apparently it seems like you haven't!
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Old 01-30-2005, 12:14 PM   #42
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Default Re: Sunday's Election

There are fears as stated by that first article, but however... it seems like it has ended the conflict and brought a sense of normalcy to the people in that reason.

I deeply apologize for the triple post.
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Old 01-30-2005, 12:16 PM   #43
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Default Re: Sunday's Election

I can tell you one thing though...you can really type alot.
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Old 01-30-2005, 12:38 PM   #44
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Default Re: Sunday's Election

Sanctions have been proposed if the attacks don't stop, but the current peace agreement does not apply to Darfur.

That's why the pressure from the United States and international organizations can't stop. If peace can be made to work for some in Sudan, it can be made to work for all its suffering people.
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Old 01-30-2005, 02:37 PM   #45
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Default Re: Sunday's Election

I Dont think I have seen longer posts than those.
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Old 01-30-2005, 02:43 PM   #46
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Default Re: Sunday's Election

Yeah, really...
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Old 01-30-2005, 02:48 PM   #47
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Default Re: Sunday's Election

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Originally Posted by airiox
I Dont think I have seen longer posts than those.
Me neither. Lets not get out of hand!!!!!
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Old 01-30-2005, 05:05 PM   #48
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Default Re: Sunday's Election

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giancarlo
You do get a choice. There are third parties. These third parties don't have enough popularity to get any seats. But there are plenty. There is proportional representation. Capitalism is the system of the free, and if you dispute then to hell with you. You are just not thinking and not thinking properly. You need to understand the true facts: America is one of the best functioning capitalist democracies in the world. It functions very fluidly and nicely.
There are third parties... third parties who aren't in the vote; you vote Republican or Democrat - the existance of the other Parties is superfluous. Many things function - that doesn't make them right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giancarlo
They wouldn't get much that would allow for representation in the house or senate because they would not be able to defeat the two big parties.
Touchet; they wouldn't. But Democracy should allow everybody to try and be represented; just because they may never get even a person to represent them doesn't mean they should be left out of the vote - it is always possible. Is Democracy not about having the chance to be able to be represented whatever your opinions are; whether they're against the administration or not; whether they're against majority beliefs or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giancarlo
In the United States, party members often criticize the leader, and the party.. and they stay. John McCain for one is one of these people.
If they critise their own party; are they not hypocrites if they don't leave? :P
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giancarlo
No it isn't a coalition government. Again spoken from somebody who quite frankly does not have the slightest clue about anything. You aren't thinking. I think you should stop typing and actually think about you are typing. You just don't understand the facts. Democrat based values are center-left, Republican based values on the center-right. There is no coalition government in this country.
Haha.... your Democrats are as far right as our conservatives - and as we and Europe Invented the Political Spectrum its based on how it was always based, not based on the American System to make it look like it has two directions. They're a dozen parties squashed into two because if you could have all the parties people want; then the two parties would split up into Parties.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giancarlo
This is spoken by a true idiot. I'm sorry but you just quite frankly know nothing about the facts. I like to be free and pay society back for what I get. A house can't be free. The private sector is far better then the public sector. You just don't understand the facts or how things function. Your mere suggestions that the public sector can make a profit is none less then idiotic. I'm tired of debating with you. You can't back yourself up, you never have and you never will. You aren't educated in this topic and I'm just about tired of it. Your theories just don't hold up to practicality, or applicability.
You pay society back by working - can you not understand paying in effort rather than money? How are you not free? You have yet to point this out. And I have already told you have a house can be free - are you saying companies cannot give Company Houses? They don't hold up to Economics; nor indeed am I educated in Economics. We all however know the Economics of Scale - are they or are they not about bigger things being less costly, more efficient, and making more profit. As far as most of this goes - you're backing up nothing you are saying, unless backing something up is based on saying I know nothing For instance; saying the Private Sector is better than the Public Sector - you have yet to back that up?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giancarlo
Yes many private companies cover health insurance that allow for free health care. But somebody must pay for it. You can't just give things out for free. The government is incredibly inefficient. I would not put it in charge of my health.
You're putting the problems, corruption and inefficiencies of your government into place in a government I have only told you a minor bit about. Are you saying no government can ever be efficient? Companies can be use and efficient; you have already commented on your respect of Microsoft - Microsoft is a huge business, as large as a few governments in the World - its efficient and works well. A Government that Works like a Company could just as easily have that efficiency, could it not? Microsoft, as a good explaination, gives Free Health Insurance to 50,000 People, and Company Houses to a good few too. Scale this up - you get the government I am talking about and hence it can work. Of course somebody pays for it - the Government pays for it just as a Company would.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giancarlo
A free transport system is not logical. It has to be funded by either subsidies or taxing people to use its services. Either way the people have to pay for public transportation, so it isn't free.
Of course; but its free like a Company Car - you don't pay for it in that sense so its thought of as Free. I'm not saying nobody pays for these things - I'm saying the people don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giancarlo
Taxes aren't required in a system like that? You don't have a single clue about what you are talking about. You need to understand the facts. I mean what kind of idiot are you? The government needs taxes to operate. There is just no other way around it. You are speaking illogically and I will not continue to debate with someone of such ignorance. Furthermore you should speak nothing of economics as you know nothing about it!
You're forgetting, the government is the company. The company is the government. Taxes aren't required because that is represented through the profit they make selling the products you make to you and the people, and International Trade. Just like a company makes profit - the government makes taxes. The best example again being Microsoft - they pay 50,000 people extremely good wages, they pay for innumerable things which don't make money - they give Free Health Care and Company Cars and Company Houses - they still make 8 to 9 Billion a Quarter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giancarlo
No you don't.
That's just plain bad debate Giancarlo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giancarlo
Talk about idiotic inefficency. This was tried under the Soviet Union and it did not work. You cannot have collectivization. This is just ridiculous and you are getting more ridiculous in every post you make. You just can't seem to grasp the basics of efficency...
Its a company; plain and simple - the Soviet Systems didn't work because of dreadful corruption, because of unpleasant leaders, and dreadful War - including an Arms Race with America that was not particularly wise. If a company does it; and you say its the best way to do it - what is different from a large company owning land, to a company the size of a government owning a country?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giancarlo
Capitalism is the most free form of economic and political belief. It very much ahs to do with freedom you idiot. Social freedom, economic freedom and personal freedom. I'm just tired of debating with you when you totally f--king refuse to accept anything other then your own illogical set of ideas that just can't work. Capitalism complements freedom and builds it up. Anything else destroys it. I've backed myself up very well.
You still haven't said anything about Economic Freedoms; where are they in the Geneva Convention? What are they the Freedom to do? Or are they just the laying down of why Capitalism must be kept? Answers to those would be helpful if you're going to actually back yourself up to anybody here who has read this far.
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Old 01-30-2005, 05:05 PM   #49
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giancarlo
And the moronism continues...WRONG WRONG WRONG! There has been 70% turnout and people have got out to vote in great masses. This is a big success. There is more work to be done, and I never said this was a solve all solution to the problems. You just don't understand do you? You can't just seem to get the basics can you? You just won't accept things as they are.
Again... people voting is not the success - the goal was not for people to vote. The goal was for a Democratic Iraqi; and that has yet to happen - especially considering that the votes had to take place under practical Military Command. Is a Militarily controlled vote democratic anyway? Its a big good; not a big success as nothing has been completed. I don't accept things as you say them... in fact - you just proved me right in that there is more to be done. Success cannot be proclaimed until there is nothing to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giancarlo
Success hasn't been achieved, but that is the inevitable way. Success will be achieved because it appears things are going on the right path. Until the people of Iraq living together in peace and prosperity? Apparently they want and they voiced that in the election. They will form a government and get a just and lasting peace. I just don't think you understand the facts and you make a mountain load of stupid statements. I'm just sick of your stupidity. Have you ever taken any political based courses ion school because apparently it seems like you haven't!
No - the people who already wanted to live in Peace and Prosperity said they wanted to in the Votes. How many of the terrorists voted? How many people against the Vote voted? Forming a government doesn't represent a just and lasting piece - Saddam Hussein had a government in place - there was government before him, and government when the British were in Transjordan. They pushed aside all all these governments; what makes anybody think they can't push aside this? They won't find peace until they have a Civil War and sort the problem out themselves. All we've done is waste our troops' lives.People don't need to do classes to learn things. We all picked up Roman Numerals before we even went to school, we learnt how to talk before we went to school - adding and subrtracting, multiplying and to a lesser extent dividing are all picked up before any reasonable teaching on the subjects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by airiox
I Dont think I have seen longer posts than those.
Lol; I did some three post posts with Inimino when we were discussing Open-Source!
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Old 01-30-2005, 05:47 PM   #50
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Default Re: Sunday's Election

More debunking... you're acting idiotic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Kalthorn
There are third parties... third parties who aren't in the vote; you vote Republican or Democrat - the existance of the other Parties is superfluous. Many things function - that doesn't make them right.
This system works and yes they are third parties on the ballot. These parties do not win enough votes in the district to gain any seats because they are beaten in those districts. There are independents who have won various elections because they have more votes then either the republicans or democrats, so your reasoning is false and stupid.

Quote:
Touchet; they wouldn't. But Democracy should allow everybody to try and be represented; just because they may never get even a person to represent them doesn't mean they should be left out of the vote - it is always possible. Is Democracy not about having the chance to be able to be represented whatever your opinions are; whether they're against the administration or not; whether they're against majority beliefs or not.
This isn't quite true. This nation is a republic, not a direct democracy. We can't have a parliament like that of Italy's, where parties with 200 or 300 members are given seats. In the United States, elections are based on federal districting. You win a district you get seats for that area. This United States election is based on federal representation (electoral college), not the popular vote. Whether one is better then the other is pure opinion. Personally I like federal representation, or the electoral college, more then direct democracy because it minimizes fraud.

Quote:
If they critise their own party; are they not hypocrites if they don't leave? :P
They don't criticize their own party, but members in it. John McCain is as republican as he comes, but not all republicans agree with each other 100% of the time.

Quote:
Haha.... your Democrats are as far right as our conservatives - and as we and Europe Invented the Political Spectrum its based on how it was always based, not based on the American System to make it look like it has two directions.
Don't say "your". I'm from Spain. I know what the facts are. And no Europe did not invent the political spectrum. That has it traces back in Sumer. And no I highly doubt the democrats are as far right as European conservatives. So please spare me this crap.

Quote:
You pay society back by working - can you not understand paying in effort rather than money? How are you not free? You have yet to point this out. And I have already told you have a house can be free - are you saying companies cannot give Company Houses? They don't hold up to Economics; nor indeed am I educated in Economics. We all however know the Economics of Scale - are they or are they not about bigger things being less costly, more efficient, and making more profit. As far as most of this goes - you're backing up nothing you are saying, unless backing something up is based on saying I know nothing For instance; saying the Private Sector is better than the Public Sector - you have yet to back that up?
This is utter shit. You just don't understand what you are saying again. You don't f--king know what freedom is and nor do you know how a neconomy functions. You can't be free personally and socially, if the economy is not free. You are a bullshit talker like that of Karl Marx. You talk and talk about freedom, but you don't have the slightest clue about how capitalism is tied with social freedom. Economies of scale? You don't know what you are talking about at all! NOT AT ALL! And it is getting tiring. You don't know what the public sector even is. I always back myself up, you crazy fool. You are the one who has the tendency of not backing yourself up. You're just crazy and you never back up your illogical beliefs. It is just so tiring responding to a pile of shit.

Quote:
You're putting the problems, corruption and inefficiencies of your government into place in a government I have only told you a minor bit about.
This shows you know nothing about government and the problems with it if it gets too huge.

Quote:
Are you saying no government can ever be efficient? Companies can be use and efficient; you have already commented on your respect of Microsoft - Microsoft is a huge business, as large as a few governments in the World - its efficient and works well. A Government that Works like a Company could just as easily have that efficiency, could it not? Microsoft, as a good explaination, gives Free Health Insurance to 50,000 People, and Company Houses to a good few too. Scale this up - you get the government I am talking about and hence it can work. Of course somebody pays for it - the Government pays for it just as a Company would.
No government can be efficient if it is not transparent, small... it can be centralized, but it must be transparent and small. What you speak of, is dangerous. You are advocating a huge massive central government that would collapse on its own weight. Don't bring in Microsoft, a capitalist invention. A capitalist idol. Microsoft is efficient because it can fire and hire people easily. The public sector cannot. I think it is fitting and good that a company gives out insurance. There is a quote "there are no smart minds in government because businesses would steal them away". The bureaucrat is not a businessman. And you cannot even begin to justify your hideously wrong beliefs.

Quote:
Of course; but its free like a Company Car - you don't pay for it in that sense so its thought of as Free. I'm not saying nobody pays for these things - I'm saying the people don't.
You're fucking ridiculous. The people have to pay for the government to sustain itself, whether it be in income taxes or some other form of tax. The government cannot run off for free.

Quote:
You're forgetting, the government is the company. The company is the government. Taxes aren't required because that is represented through the profit they make selling the products you make to you and the people, and International Trade.
The government is the company? Now you are starting to sound like a complete fool. Have you ever read the book "1984"? You are starting to sound like an Orwellien on drugs. Your beliefs are horrible. You don't know what you are talking about. The government CANNOT AND WILL NOT OWN THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION IN THE ECONOMY. If it does the economy will end up in total collapse (example, Soviet Union 1970s-1980s, Brezhnev/Andropov/Chereneko era). The Soviet Union controlled the entire economy, and acted as the company. It got so inefficent there was logistical breakdowns. Your ideas would starve millions of people.

Quote:
Just like a company makes profit - the government makes taxes. he best example again being Microsoft - they pay 50,000 people extremely good wages, they pay for innumerable things which don't make money - they give Free Health Care and Company Cars and Company Houses - they still make 8 to 9 Billion a Quarter.
That's just plain bad debate Giancarlo
The government doesn't make taxes. It collects taxes. You continue making boneheaded statements like that that just quite frankly, make you look more like a fool in the end. Don't you ever get embarrassed about it?

That's not bad debate, as it is quite true.
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