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Old 08-08-2007, 12:45 PM   #41
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Default Re: religon (if this offened any one im sorry ill have a mod take it down)

im supposed to be methodist, but im kinda half and half, i mean what happens when we die?? think about it, nobody knows, i mean seriously, what happens, do we get reborn? i kinda believe in god, i mean i def. believe in evolution and stuff like that

idk, i guess im a rather large mix of things
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:55 PM   #42
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Default Re: religon (if this offened any one im sorry ill have a mod take it down)

Thin about it this way. If there was nothing, when you die, you wouldn't exist anymore. What you've felt won't exist anymore, so everything you've done will only exist in other people who are alive.

Thinking about that, is really chilling. I guess its the same kind of feeling you get when you think about the fact you were born, yet, where were you before that. Whats the first feelings you have, upon waking up to the world.

But Relgion stops us tihnking that. Were born to survive and fight for survival after all.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:56 PM   #43
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Default Re: religon (if this offened any one im sorry ill have a mod take it down)

Ahyoka, thanks for pointing that out. I shoulda read more carefully in sunday school.
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:37 PM   #44
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Default Re: religon (if this offened any one im sorry ill have a mod take it down)

Ok, I've been A christian for about 6-7 years.

I am currently a senior at a bible school and Have been studying it hardcore for like 4 years now.

Anyrate.

1. Evolution is not fact. Hence "Evolution Theory" or Darwin's Theory...Its still a theory...Give me one example of Marco Evolution happening today?...Right..there is none. Point taken.

2. The bible does reference dinos/dragons in the old testament. In Job, and somewhere in Kings, I do believe.

3. The standard Creationism account, the one I really believe is this: Dino's existed with the Garden of Eden and when that was destoryed so where most of the dino's. Since well only few were accounted in the Bible, it is standard to say that most of the where destoryed when Eden was destroyed. And other's died off.

The only rational explantionation is the area being the middle east, and most of them being herbirvores not finding vegitation...hence why some of them you find in the US possibley looking for food??

If you know your bible well enough you'll also know that most animals where herbivores in the Garden of Eden and were not made canivores until after the fall of man. Even humans. Hences the fruit?..

Also the account in Genesis clearly states human being/Man.

Carbon dating is a complete waste: They carbon dated a fetile pig and it was listed at a few million years old.

I personally believe the earth is only a few thousand years old. Like maybe 4 thousandish...

If it was a couple billion years old, with all of the meteors that come to earth even today...the "big one" would have hit the earth already causing a complete climate melt down...

Not to mention the earth would be in really bad shape. The sun would have already became a black hole.

We have no way of proving how old the sun is, how long the last, or how old the stars are...

Anyway...I am sure someone will come in a "prove" all of these points wrong...but just look at the facts..

Are you seriously saying that human beings have been on the earth for a couple million years and this as far as we gotten? Please... Look at the last 100 years and how far we've come...


Oh and least not mention how everyone of the bible prochies to date mind you have come true. Meaning their are still a few prochies that haven't happen yet, but the track record for the bible is true.

Many of your scientist try to prove the bible wrong, and actually get proved wrong by the bible Example the Hitties.

The book of ACTS is probably one of the most historical documents of our time.

A leading athesist, even agree. The real debate is rather Jesus is God, rather than if Jesus exisited. Most "intelligent" athesist don't even bother to debate the historical weight the bible holds. But rather if their really is a God or not.

Oh and another thing: Don't give me this "The bible is written by man, and man is fallible" Crap...you are just proving yourself wrong, wasn't the evolution theory created by man? How about all historical documents? -man. Math?- Man. Science- man.

Einstien-man.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:14 PM   #45
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Default Re: religon (if this offened any one im sorry ill have a mod take it down)

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Oh and another thing: Don't give me this "The bible is written by man, and man is fallible" Crap...you are just proving yourself wrong, wasn't the evolution theory created by man? How about all historical documents? -man. Math?- Man. Science- man.

Einstien-man.
But you see, since both were done by man, that means one, or both of them could be wrong.

You talk alot about proof though, where is the proof that every animal was once a herbivor? or even that we didn't evolve from apes? I think science has that link pretty much tied down. You keep saying there is no proof to support ours, but all we have to support yours is a book that was writen, and re-written by man.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:17 PM   #46
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Default Re: religon (if this offened any one im sorry ill have a mod take it down)

I use to believe slightly but nah not for me anymore, to make believe.
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Old 08-08-2007, 03:47 PM   #47
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Default Re: religon (if this offened any one im sorry ill have a mod take it down)

Dorfman, what concerns me is that where most of the posts here have been a general debate, your argument, has been aggressive and dismissive of every other persons argument.

Fair enough, you might believe you are right in your arguments for the existance of god, what you have said is facts, are not.........they are your point of view, the only 'fact' that I agree with here, is that the bible is a book, however it is a book written by man, albeit 'led' by the holy spirit when written. Now for those that believe in a triune god, then they may argue that it was indeed written by god. However christianity is the only religion out of the 3 that I mentioned earlier that believes in a triune god.

An argument that could be used against you saying the following

"Are you seriously saying that human beings have been on the earth for a couple million years and this as far as we gotten? Please... Look at the last 100 years and how far we've come..."

In ezekial I think the verse is, that man will become more godlike, they will seek to be like god, and I have only paraphrased here, its not the exact wording. This could be an argument for the development of sciences and medicine over the last 100 years.

I believe a more appropriate theory for the creationist argument is that genesis is not referring to 7 days, as in 24 hrs, but as in 7 periods of times, this can account for evolution as you so strongly deny which is shown in the development of animals over the last few milennia.

I personally don't believe that there is much doubt that Jesus existed, and yes I would agree that the argument is wether Jesus is God, even muslims acknowledge that Jesus existed but is acknowledged as a prophet. In Judaism he is not knowledged as the son of god, they still believe that the coming of christ has still not happened.

Its an interesting comment, 'the historical weight the bible holds' to me, yes all books of all eras hold a certain amount of historical weight. In 500 years time, what documents will hold a historical weight, Harry Potter maybe, or the science or medical journals of today. However, in terms of this, there has been aspects of the bible lost in its translation, and as a biblical scholar I am sure you are aware of this. In many translations, the term 'love' has been used a wide range of hebrew words ranging from full emotional intense love, to friendship. Who made these determinations of what words would supplant what?

I think what comes down to it, and its a point that you worryingly miss out in, but someone touched on earlier is Faith........you have a faith has a christian, that Jesus Christ died for your sins, and that he was the son of God. Through accepting him, sins have been resolved, that is the point of christianity.

Remember the two commandments of Jesus as stated in the bible,

Matt 22:37-40. Jesus said to him," 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself'. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.(NKJ)

These are the two laws which Jesus said, he didn't argue about creation, he didn't even touch on it, what his whole intention was to lay down a new law, a new time, where man had previously been separated from god, they could now commune with him first hand.

As I say I am not a Christian, however I do enjoy reading biblical books, I have studied the words that are written, and I have compared them to other translations, it is all down to interpretation, from reading the New International Version, King James bible, New King James Bible, or even the message, each those have key verses which differ and can be interpreted differently.
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Old 08-08-2007, 04:28 PM   #48
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Default Re: religon (if this offened any one im sorry ill have a mod take it down)

I think both sides have good points but if you've ever studied evolution you'll see that a lot of it makes absolute sense. People tend to get things confused, we didn't come from apes. Even though there are people who believe so I don't think we did although we very well could have, none of us were there when this stuff happened. Apes and Monkeys and that family of creatures are closely related to us. They have over 90% of the same DNA we do. Also I find it funny that some people believe that animals can evolve, yet humans cannot. That makes no sense to me? I do question the whole creation thing, the fact that one man can create all of matter, cells, DNA, organisms and everything like magic sounds a bit questionable to me. There is evidence to prove that the earth has been here for billions of years, just pay attention in any science class and they teach you that.
People will believe what they want, I just find it odd that a lot of religious groups tend to persecute those who believe against them and yet those who aren't religious tend to leave the religious folks alone and let them do their thing. Who's being more "holy"? One example of this is the people who protest against the homosexuals. A lot of religious groups tend to do that because that stuff is biblically wrong in most religions and they protest against gay rights, gay marriage and stuff like that. Notice how the gays don't go bashing religion? that sticks out to me. I'm not gay and I don't agree with it but it's none of my business. I don't care if people are gay or not, they're people just like us. What harm have they brought to us? none. It's issues like that which really make me have a problem with religions.
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Old 08-08-2007, 04:49 PM   #49
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Default Re: religon (if this offened any one im sorry ill have a mod take it down)

^^ Good point.

There is one thing I don't get, but I could just be mis-informed. In the bible God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and have lots of kids. Yet catholic priests, who are supposed to be more saintlike and do everything the bible says, are forbidden from getting married. Which means they can't have kids (pre-marital sex thing) and are going against what god told us.

Kinda weird don't ya think?
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Old 08-08-2007, 05:43 PM   #50
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Default Re: religon (if this offened any one im sorry ill have a mod take it down)

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^^ Good point.

There is one thing I don't get, but I could just be mis-informed. In the bible God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and have lots of kids. Yet catholic priests, who are supposed to be more saintlike and do everything the bible says, are forbidden from getting married. Which means they can't have kids (pre-marital sex thing) and are going against what god told us.

Kinda weird don't ya think?
No where in the bible does it talk of clergy having to stay unmarried, Catholicism thinks otherwise though, but they also have alot of practices that aren't biblical, Mary worship, priest intercessory for sins, confessionals and purgatory have no basis in scripture.

And another kinda interesting thing that you said about being saint like, biblically a saint is merely someone who has "overcome", or been saved. They don't have to be a Mother Teresa or a Pope John Paul the III. They were great people of our times no doubt but in God's eyes they are just two more of the flock who have returned home.
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