Go Back   Computer Forums > Welcome To Computer Forums .org > Social Lounge | Off Topic
Click Here to Login
Join Computer forums Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-25-2008, 07:44 PM   #11
Daemon Poster
 
iamchickenlover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 821
Default Re: religion

god is a convenient way to explain earths beginning but what about everything else there is either an infinite or at least a huge unknown number of other galaxies out there and we have PROVEN they exist so how do we explain that? and there has to be at least one more planet out there with life like us on it maybe more. how would people who believe in god answer that? there are some religion that believe in living a good life and treating their fellow man well and they worship some divine human, i could believe those it is all these ones with one god and all those who do not believe will die religions which i think are bogus. me i think when i die i am dead and thats final but i am gonna try to be nice and live well and if i am wrong and there is a heaven and a god then...dam looks like it is hell for me
__________________

iamchickenlover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2008, 10:18 PM   #12
Golden Master
 
Cabbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,912
Send a message via AIM to Cabbs
Default Re: religion

__________________

Cabbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 08:18 AM   #13
In Runtime
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 272
Default Re: religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahyoka View Post
For the record, I am a Christian.


Belief 1: "The Earth is only 6,000 years old"

It's very obvious throughout Scripture the earth is older than that, to think otherwise is just total BS. The first verse of the bible teaches that the earth is older than 6k years, because it says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth", so that implies that God created the heavens and the earth at the same time, not 'God created the heavens and then the earth sometime later'. There are many other places throughout the bible that say it's older than 6k years but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
This is a theory not a belief that many people believe in, simply by the math of the O.T. For instance if you take Adam and he lived several hundred years, and so on….if Adam was "created" on the year 0 or what have you, you would have about 6000 between then and now. And there is no specific places in the bible that suggest that it is older than 6k.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahyoka View Post
Belief 2: "Adam and Eve were the first people"

That is BS, it is just so friggin' obvious in Scripture that they were not the first people created but rather the first people mentioned by name. Then right after that when people teach God banished then for eating fruit? again that is wrong but I don't want to type out the whole explanation.
Genesis 2:7-24 (NASB)

"7Then the LORD God formed man of (H)dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and (I)man became a living being. 8The LORD God planted a (J)garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed. 9Out of the ground the LORD God caused to grow (K)every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; (L)the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. 10Now a (M)river flowed out of Eden to water the garden; and from there it divided and became four rivers. 11The name of the first is Pishon; it flows around the whole land of (N)Havilah, where there is gold. 12The gold of that land is good; the bdellium and the onyx stone are there. 13The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush. 14The name of the third river is (O)Tigris; it flows east of Assyria And the fourth river is the (P)Euphrates. 15Then the LORD God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. 16The LORD God (Q)commanded the man, saying, "From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it (R)you will surely die." 18Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; (S)I will make him a helper [a]suitable for him." 19(T)Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and (U)brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. 20The man gave names to all the cattle, and to the birds of the sky, and to every beast of the field, but for [b]Adam there was not found (V)a helper suitable for him. 21So the LORD God caused a (W)deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22The LORD God [c]fashioned into a woman (X)the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. 23The man said,
"(Y)This is now bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man." 24(Z)For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. 25(AA)And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed. "

That pretty well states that man was alone. And Adam and Eve were the first ones.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahyoka View Post
Belief 3: "Jesus is gonna come and rapture us all away"

Again, BS. Show me from Scripture where it says that? most people will quote 1st Thessalonians 4:15–17, but again it's where people take one word out of context, in this passage it's the word "air". Most people think of it as in the sky but really in the Greek the word means "in the spirit", as in when we die our spirit is caught up to the Lord. But it's like look throughout Scripture (which, I can list the passages), it says in place after place to watch out because Satan is let loose for a short season to impersonate Jesus, but again to read my post makes it sound rather bizarre but I am REALLY paraphrasing things here and to look at it from Scripture it is much easier to understand.
"John 14:2-3
2"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for (A)I go to prepare a place for you.
3"If I go and prepare a place for you, (B)I will come again and receive you to Myself, that (C)where I am, there you may be also.
Philippians 3:20-21
20For (A)our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly (B)wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21who will (C)transform the body of our humble state into (D)conformity with the E)body of His glory, (F)by the exertion of the power that He has even to (G)subject all things to Himself.

1 Corinthians 15:49-55
49Just as we have (A)borne the image of the earthy, [a]we (B)will also bear the image of the heavenly.
50Now I say this, brethren, that (C)flesh and blood cannot (D)inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit (E)the imperishable.
51Behold, I tell you a (F)mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be (G)changed,
52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for (H)the trumpet will sound, and (I)the dead will be raised imperishable, and (J)we will be changed.
53For this perishable must put on (K)the imperishable, and this (L)mortal must put on immortality.
54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "(M)DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
55"(N)O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?"

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
15For this we say to you (A)by the word of the Lord, that (B)we who are alive and remain until (C)the coming of the Lord, will not precede (D)those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord (E)Himself (F)will descend from heaven with a (G)shout, with the voice of (H)the archangel and with the (I)trumpet of God, and (J)the dead in Christ will rise first.
17Then (K)we who are alive and remain will be (L)caught up together with them (M)in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always (N)be with the Lord.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-7
1Now we request you, (A)brethren, with regard to the (B)coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our (C)gathering together to Him,
2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a (D)spirit or a (E)message or a (F)letter as if from us, to the effect that (G)the day of the Lord (H)has come.
3(I)Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the [a](J)apostasy comes first, and the (K)man of lawlessness is revealed, the (L)son of destruction,
4who opposes and exalts himself above (M)every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, (N)displaying himself as being God.
5Do you not remember that (O)while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
6And you know (P)what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
7For (Q)the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only (R)he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. "

All of these verses relate to Jesus Rapturing us. Its not the question of is Jesus going to rapture us. Its when, that the big debate is. Before or after Satan comes, and even in the middle. Jesus is going to rapture us…its just when?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahyoka View Post
Belief 4:
The Bible has been translated so many times we have no idea what it means

A weak excuse IMO, Scholars still have the original manuscripts. Besides, the Strong's Biblical Concordance will take any word in the bible back to it's original Greek or Hebrew root so you can see what it actually means, and while alot of things don't have the same emphasis in newer translations (like NIV, HCSB, The Living Bible etc) the King James Version (while a little hard to read with all the thees, thous and arts) is really a very good translation with only one major boo boo (which is somewhere in the book of Matthew, I can't remember where exactly but I can find it). Anyway this is a very rushed post but I'm in a hurry because I'm about to go to town with some friends.
.
The New American Standard Bible is the most literal bible we have. These are greek scholars that write these bibles, some of them might even have greek as their first language. The problem we have, is that no language translates perfectly into another. So instead of directly translating the word, they give us phrase that means what the word means.

Also, with that said, the NKJV or the KJV is the worst translation. The reason being is that it was written in the 1600's, and translated from the Latin version of the Bible.

So you have Hebrew and Greek translated into Latin, then Translated into Old English.

Most new translation, take straight from the Hebrew and Greek.
__________________
Eagles may soar, but Weasles don't get sucked into jet engines.

Words of Wisdom:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01001010 View Post
You really have no idea what you're talking about, don't you?
dorfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 08:55 AM   #14
Golden Master
 
Kage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 13,873
Send a message via MSN to Kage
Default Re: religion

How can anyone be excited by this kind of thread?
Beats me, haha
__________________
Abit IP35 Pro / Q6600 G0 / Zalman 9700 / 8800GTS 640mb / 4x 2GB Corsair XMS / X-FI Xtreme M / 1x 1TB / Antec 900 / Logitech Z-5500 / Samsung 20inch
Kage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 09:18 AM   #15
Fully Optimized
 
drumthrasher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,606
Send a message via AIM to drumthrasher Send a message via MSN to drumthrasher Send a message via Yahoo to drumthrasher
Default Re: religion

I don't believe in any of the whole religious junk.
__________________
Gateway GT4016 Desktop | CPU: AMD Athlon 64 3700+ @ 2.2GHz | RAM: 2GB (4x512MB) | HDD: 1x200GB, 1x120GB | Video: ATI HD Radeon 4850 512MB | OS: Vista Home Premium x86 SP1, Mac OS X Leopard 10.5.6
drumthrasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 10:00 AM   #16
Golden Master
 
MikeReiner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,053
Send a message via AIM to MikeReiner Send a message via MSN to MikeReiner Send a message via Yahoo to MikeReiner
Default Re: religion

When you ask somebody who is religious 'Why won't god heal amputees" they give you some response like "that's too big of a prayer" or something like that. Gee, since when was god so weak that he was un-able to make a limb grow.

So if he can't even do that, then it explains why he lets tens of thousands of people die of starvation and let's all these crack-pot extremists in the middle east kill in his name.

So if god exists, I believe there are two possibilities:
1. He is too weak to do anything about all the terrible things happening. Or
2: He is so cruel and sadistic that he does not care.

If either are true, then I would choose not to worship, as he does not fit the bill for whom I would think of as an all loving creator.

Don't feed me that 'god works in mysterious ways' bullshit. That's just an excuse for him. He's god, he doesn't need an excuse. He needs to get his act together, otherwise.. people might... start.. doubting his existence.

Tell me honestly, those of you who choose to follow a religion, you say that everyday of your lives, god is there, he helps you, he answers your prayer.. etc etc.. if that's the case, why is it that he has no problem helping middle aged people living in developed countries with their problems, yet couldn't care less about all the people dying of starvation and AIDS? I don't want to hear an answer at all if it's just more mind-numblingly stupid quotes from the bible and more 'god works in mysterious ways' bullshit.


A guy I knew, used to be my neighbor, was once in a car accident. He was in the back driver side of the car the entire time. He never moved to another seat, he never did anything weird, he just sat there in that seat. An accident occurs, with another car hitting the back passenger side of the car, crushing the area where somebody would normally be sitting. Remember, nobody sat there, at all, the entire time, this was confirmed by other passengers and the witness of when they got in the car.

After he gets out of the hospital, he claims that god told him to move out of the passenger side seat of the car. wait, what? He was never in the seat. He had always claimed and stood by it, that he had gotten in on the passenger side, and that god told him to move roughly a minute before the accident. 3 other people (The driver, the passenger, and somebody who saw them get in the car) justify that he did NOT sit in the passenger side seat, yet he insists that god just saved his life. He refuses to believe that maybe the anesthetics he was given when having stitched put in may have something to do with him thinking that.

As you can see, his belief in god took priority over any form of logic. He would rather sound like a complete dumbass than face the possibility that it wasn't god.
MikeReiner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 10:06 AM   #17
Fully Optimized
 
bullzi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: US
Posts: 3,283
Send a message via Yahoo to bullzi Send a message via Skype™ to bullzi
Default Re: religion

I'm not really religious. Nothing can be proved 100% therefor I don't follow it.
__________________
-Desktop- Dual Monitor, Q8200 2.34Ghz, 8GB, 1TB, XFX 6850, 7 Ultimate
-ASUS UL50- SU7300, 4GB, 500GB, G210M, 7 Home Premium 64, XP Pro
-HP NC6400- Core Duo 1.86Ghz, 2.5GB, 64GB SSD, x1300, XP Pro
bullzi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 10:44 AM   #18
In Runtime
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 272
Default Re: religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeReiner View Post
When you ask somebody who is religious 'Why won't god heal amputees" they give you some response like "that's too big of a prayer" or something like that. Gee, since when was god so weak that he was un-able to make a limb grow.
Actually, its because that person praying for them, has not faith that God will heal that person, and thus God doesn't heal that person, because we have no faith. Likewise, the person that is the amputee probably doesn't have the faith for God to heal them, so God doesn't. God isn't going to give you something for nothing. If you don't have faith in the situation happening, hes not just going to make it happen.

Like Jesus and when he was in Nazareth, he didn't do anything because the people there didn't have faith that it would happen.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeReiner View Post
So if he can't even do that, then it explains why he lets tens of thousands of people die of starvation and let's all these crack-pot extremists in the middle east kill in his name.

So if god exists, I believe there are two possibilities:
1. He is too weak to do anything about all the terrible things happening. Or
2: He is so cruel and sadistic that he does not care.

If either are true, then I would choose not to worship, as he does not fit the bill for whom I would think of as an all loving creator.

Don't feed me that 'god works in mysterious ways' bullshit. That's just an excuse for him. He's god, he doesn't need an excuse. He needs to get his act together, otherwise.. people might... start.. doubting his existence.

Tell me honestly, those of you who choose to follow a religion, you say that everyday of your lives, god is there, he helps you, he answers your prayer.. etc etc.. if that's the case, why is it that he has no problem helping middle aged people living in developed countries with their problems, yet couldn't care less about all the people dying of starvation and AIDS? I don't want to hear an answer at all if it's just more mind-numblingly stupid quotes from the bible and more 'god works in mysterious ways' bullshit.
You act like this is God's fault, and not our own. If you would actually read the bible, or have a common understanding of who God is, you would realize, that because of US...us! HUMANS!? man? Adam? that was the cause of Sin, and because of that, all of this crap entered the world, as the result OF OUR SHORT COMINGS! Thus God sent Christ to die for our sins, as the result we can't do anything ourselves, and end up screwing things up, so God had to forsake God (Jesus is God remember the whole trinity thing) to bring us closer to Him, and as atonement for our sins.


As far as your story goes, that is on him, not God.

You people have to realize that because Christians say that they are Christians, doesn't make them perfect, nor should they say that they are perfect, otherwise they are idoits.

We are all sinners here (in that point of view) and the only difference between Christians, and non Christians, is the whole salvation thing and Christ forgiving them of their wrong doings.

So you blame God for all the problems of the earth, and you fail to recongize, that it is Us who is the blame for not trusting in Him in the first place.

We reject God. God lets us do what we want, because of freewill.

Its our choice whether to follow God laws, and commands.
__________________
Eagles may soar, but Weasles don't get sucked into jet engines.

Words of Wisdom:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01001010 View Post
You really have no idea what you're talking about, don't you?
dorfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 11:40 AM   #19
Golden Master
 
MikeReiner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,053
Send a message via AIM to MikeReiner Send a message via MSN to MikeReiner Send a message via Yahoo to MikeReiner
Default Re: religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorfman View Post
Actually, its because that person praying for them, has not faith that God will heal that person, and thus God doesn't heal that person, because we have no faith. Likewise, the person that is the amputee probably doesn't have the faith for God to heal them, so God doesn't. God isn't going to give you something for nothing. If you don't have faith in the situation happening, hes not just going to make it happen.
That doesn't make much sense. So your saying that everyone who is an amputee, and everyone who would pray for them, doesn't have faith?

That is a pretty pathetic answer in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorfman View Post
You act like this is God's fault, and not our own. If you would actually read the bible, or have a common understanding of who God is, you would realize, that because of US...us! HUMANS!? man? Adam? that was the cause of Sin, and because of that, all of this crap entered the world, as the result OF OUR SHORT COMINGS! Thus God sent Christ to die for our sins, as the result we can't do anything ourselves, and end up screwing things up, so God had to forsake God (Jesus is God remember the whole trinity thing) to bring us closer to Him, and as atonement for our sins.
So you are trying to say, that because of this adam, everybody born in a situation where they are dying and living in poverty, and have no religion to speak of.. you're saying it's their own fault? It's somehow their fault? and their caring and loving god shouldn't have to care or do anything about it?

He's not caring or loving if he doesn't care about people who never had a choice in the matter. I don't buy that story where we are responsible just because some guy named adam did something that just about anybody with a brain could tell was a stupid idea.

And for the record, I have read the bible. I live in a morman family, I spent a lot of my earlier years growing up, reading that book, and I have gotten in trouble in the past for pointing out things that I found to be just plain wrong.

A couple years ago I read the bible again, cover to cover, and that is when I became an atheist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorfman View Post

So you blame God for all the problems of the earth, and you fail to recongize, that it is Us who is the blame for not trusting in Him in the first place.
I just said god is a pretty sadistic being if he thinks it's ok to let tens of thousands of people die of starvation. Do you think all those people deserve it? If they are born into poverty, molested as children, and never taught anything about religion whatsoever, and then die of starvation, it's ok because some guy named adam sinned, and god played that game where one person screws it up everybody, and now they should all go to hell and burn forever because they had no belief in god.

It's pretty hard to believe in god when he makes no intervention whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorfman View Post

We reject God. God lets us do what we want, because of freewill.

Its our choice whether to follow God laws, and commands.
I just find it hard to imagine what kind of being he is, if he thinks anybody who doesn't follow his commands is some sort of sinner that deserves to burn in hell forever. If I swear, look at porn, say lots of offensive things, but spend my time helping people, never hurting, and doing generally good things for myself and all of those around me, yet I don't care for his ways at all, does that make me the evil scum he sends to hell?

If so, then I fully reject him, because he's a hypocritical son of a bitch that focuses on things of absolutely no relevance whatsoever.

I still find it hard to swallow that he thinks all gays should go to hell. I know quite a few gay people, some of the best people I know. If god hates them, then I hate god.
MikeReiner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2008, 12:48 PM   #20
In Runtime
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 272
Default Re: religion

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeReiner View Post
That doesn't make much sense. So your saying that everyone who is an amputee, and everyone who would pray for them, doesn't have faith?

That is a pretty pathetic answer in my opinion.
No, what I saying, is they don't have enough faith. You look at something impossbile, and you say that is impossible, thefore you think it is impossible and thus throw up a prayer that you don't stand behind. Also, maybe you should do some research on people having faith and healing people like that, who have crippled hands and feet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeReiner View Post
So you are trying to say, that because of this adam, everybody born in a situation where they are dying and living in poverty, and have no religion to speak of.. you're saying it's their own fault? It's somehow their fault? and their caring and loving god shouldn't have to care or do anything about it?

He's not caring or loving if he doesn't care about people who never had a choice in the matter. I don't buy that story where we are responsible just because some guy named adam did something that just about anybody with a brain could tell was a stupid idea.

And for the record, I have read the bible. I live in a morman family, I spent a lot of my earlier years growing up, reading that book, and I have gotten in trouble in the past for pointing out things that I found to be just plain wrong.

A couple years ago I read the bible again, cover to cover, and that is when I became an atheist.
He does care, He did send Jesus to tell us about it. He also had the idea of writing a book, called the bible and giving it to man so that every man might see who he is. Its up to you, to decide if that is truth or not. Do you really want God come down, and be like, here I am?
The fact is, people have a choice,and they choose to deny it, rather or not they read the bible, is up to them, and up to us. All Christians are commanded to spread the word to every nation, maybe we are doing a bad job at that, but that is still on Us.

Also, you say you are morman. Have you actually read the Holy Bible or the “Christian” bible or the morman bible? Two completely different things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeReiner View Post
I just said god is a pretty sadistic being if he thinks it's ok to let tens of thousands of people die of starvation. Do you think all those people deserve it? If they are born into poverty, molested as children, and never taught anything about religion whatsoever, and then die of starvation, it's ok because some guy named adam sinned, and god played that game where one person screws it up everybody, and now they should all go to hell and burn forever because they had no belief in god.

It's pretty hard to believe in god when he makes no intervention whatsoever.
You also have to remember that Satan is at work, trying to suck people in. It could be because man let Sin into the world by his choice, that Satan now rules the earth? And all of these problems are do to the fact that Satan is doing them? And instea of Christians spreading the word around they are sitting on their butts, and not doing a thing about it, and instead of those people turning to God, they are cursing Him, when he isn't even the one doing it. Also with that said, God did send us, Jesus, and prophets, and the word of God. Any other intervention we would all be robots to Him, instead of having to choose God.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeReiner View Post
I just find it hard to imagine what kind of being he is, if he thinks anybody who doesn't follow his commands is some sort of sinner that deserves to burn in hell forever. If I swear, look at porn, say lots of offensive things, but spend my time helping people, never hurting, and doing generally good things for myself and all of those around me, yet I don't care for his ways at all, does that make me the evil scum he sends to hell?

If so, then I fully reject him, because he's a hypocritical son of a bitch that focuses on things of absolutely no relevance whatsoever.

I still find it hard to swallow that he thinks all gays should go to hell. I know quite a few gay people, some of the best people I know. If god hates them, then I hate god.
Then what else would you want it to be? Robots? Free to do whatever? Just as a father gives a set a rules to their children, so God gives us a set of rules to follow. The point is to believe in Him, and do those good things for HIM, in his honor. All things are given by him, and we should do all things for him.

Also, no where in the Bible does it say, that Gays should go to hell.

It does say that being homosexual is detestable to God, and that we shouldn't do it. JUST LIKE ALL OF THE OTHER SIN!

So the next time some lame Christian says, Gays burn in hell, throw the bible at them, tell them to read it, because they too are sinners.

Being gay, according to the Bible is a sin, but like all sin can be forgiven, if they believe in HIM!

It sounds like you've had a lot of dumb Christians talk to you, or have read things that dumb Christians do.

Anyways, good talk.
__________________

__________________
Eagles may soar, but Weasles don't get sucked into jet engines.

Words of Wisdom:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01001010 View Post
You really have no idea what you're talking about, don't you?
dorfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0