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Old 03-18-2009, 06:45 AM   #81
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Default Re: Reasons I Need A Car

I'm glad that some people are sensible on here,

Freestyler, the way you sound like you're intending to drive, (racing your friends, trying to go too fast in the snow etc) it's not going to be long before you wrap that car around a tree, another car or a person.

you want an AWD so you can drive faster in the snow. you think that AWD is going to help you get around a corner faster in the snow? please explain that?

I reckon that's complete BS.

firstly, you're going to skid when you brake, AWD won't make a difference, I have a FWD car, when it snows if I drive too fast and brake too hard I skid, there will be no difference in your car, it still has four wheels and still brakes on all four wheels. my dad has a 4WD car if he drives too fast and brakes too hard his car skids as well.
(and it's a land rover discovery so you can't be saying it's just a crap example of a 4wd car, it has almost impeccable any surface and conditions record for driving -by trained people)

you think that you'll skid around a corner,
OK, I guess that there may be some truth in this, FWD are slightly less officiant at cornering than RWD cars because you have power on the front wheels and this reduced the turning efficiency, (though you'll still have power on the front wheels in an AWD car). (I can't remember exactly how this works it's something to do with over coming forces and trying to put forces opposing your motion).

but you'll still have the same problem anyway, you still have forward momentum when you turn, and if this is too great your tyres still won't be effective, they will still slide out from under you preferring to go forward with the force that they have, momentum is a force described as the weight and speed in a given direction, to turn you have to overcome this, and that relies a lot on grip, more than it does what wheels power is delivered to. i.e it'll be just as easy to skid your audi as it would any other car, (including all the cars that you've said are not good enough in this thread). there is a reason that people might slow down to 7mph for a corner in the snow, that's the safe way to do it.

I agree thought that RWD cars are less suitable for driving in the snow, it's always the case that either there is not enough weight over the back axle to get traction, or your engine is over the back wheels and there is a greater chance of your car turning around due to the effects of momentum when turning. because all the weight is at the back.

anyway. long story short, if you drive the way that you seem to sound like you're planning in this thread I'd get a car that was worth only $100 (no I didn't miss a 0) because you're going to crash it pretty soon anyway.
at least then you could go through a hundred and twenty cars before you've exhausted that 12K car fund!

My final thought on you racing your friend in the GTi...
According to this his car will make 0 - 60 in 7.3 seconds
(source: http://www.carfolio.com/specificatio...ar/?car=122001)

whilst yours will do it in about 5.8
(source: http://www.carfolio.com/specificatio...car/?car=21769)

(assuming you can drive it well enough). so you may have a chance at beating him, but you may also be a crap driver and he'll still beat you in a slower car.

and whilst you think that your car is great because it's got 50 extra horses.
it's heavier, so power to weight ratio only looks like and extra 20 horses, (so you have ~10% more power than he has, not ~25% extra).

you gotta think, would your 250HP car beat a 194HP bike?
by your reckoning you've got bags more power and of course you will!

Anyone who knows there bikes will know that there is only one bike in the world that powerful, and you're not going to beat it in a car. because it's faster than all cars.

really, just from what you;re saying in this thread, you don't need a car, not just that you don't need a nice big fast car, just you don't really need a car at all.

you'd like a car, and in some strange and twisted way you think that trying hard at school (like you're meant to anyway) is a great reason for your parents to spunk 12 grand on a nice car for you.

anyway, you want a reason to have a car, well cause I want one seems to be the only real reason, or so I can get places.

if you can't justify the reasons that you need a car for yourself then do you really need one at all?

(I didn't have a car in school because I could walk there, -obviously you can't perhaps it's too far away?), I got a car because I needed one, (I worked 20 miles from home and there was no buses). if you honestly can't find a reason for having a car, then perhaps there really isn't a reason?
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Old 03-18-2009, 10:15 AM   #82
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Default Re: Reasons I Need A Car

Root wins again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freestyler105 View Post
You guys haven't driven in Buffalo during storms. I drove my mom's FWD minivan all winter until she sold it. You get caught wrong in one little rut, and your wheels just spin until you dig yourself out.
And then when you're going around turns at 5mph, instead of going left or right you keep going straight toward a ditch - regardless of how you turn the wheel. And your brakes do nothing at that point.

AWD isn't the answer to everything, but having experienced the difference (my mom now has an AWD Highlander) it is a nice safety net.

Snow tires help, but they only do so much.
Umm... thats because its ice, any vehicle will do that. Most of the weight is over the front tires so if you are spinning yours, then a truck will spin its. Trust, me, my dad's pickup has had wheel slippage on dry pavement. Its just a matter of knowing how to drive your vehicle. I'll take my mom's Fwd odyssey over my dad's 4x4 pickup in the snow anyday.... unless I need to plow and/or salt.

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Originally Posted by DJ-CHRIS View Post
Unlike pavement, gravel is far harder to clear. Unless it gets real warm during winter, theirs a buildup of snow and ice overtop of it, been up to 6" of buildup.
Good point. I was thinking in terms of a freezing rain.

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Originally Posted by superman22x View Post
Of course FWD is better, it is easy to spin out when being pushed rather then pulled. And usually around 60% of the weight is over the front tires. The worst you can get in the winter is a RWD truck... My truck is 3200 lbs, and about 2000lbs are over the front wheels. Paired with an open differential, it can get hard to get going. I have a posi sitting in my garage I need to install still...
This is it. My dad's truck also has a non limited differential, so even in 4wd if two wheels are up he isn't going anywhere. I've been in it while my mom tried snow driving in just 2wd. It was fishtailing everywhere. 4wd kept it straight.

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Originally Posted by freestyler105 View Post
If you have ABS, slamming on the brakes will probably help slow you down while you try to turn to avoid crashing. If not, you can try to pump the brakes yourself.
ANY braking in a corner will kick your rear end out in a split second. You brake UP TO the turn,, then accelerate out of the turn. no pedal input while you are turning (except in good conditions you can accelerate out of the turn)
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Old 03-18-2009, 12:26 PM   #83
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Default Re: Reasons I Need A Car

I'd also like to add that as root said, even powering around corners won't work, regardless of FWD, RWD or AWD. Plain and simple, theirs a big luck factor to it, some ice under one tire or gaining grip with another on some small patch of exposed something will cause a very different outcome everytime. And yeah, also braking during a turn in snow regardless of ABS or not will cause you to go all over the damn place.
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Old 03-18-2009, 02:17 PM   #84
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Default Re: Reasons I Need A Car

I could have a FWD car, but AWD is clearly safer and easier, and my parents care about that. They are not going to buy me a truck.

I don't care much about MPG as long as it's not ridiculous.

@root I never said I needed AWD to go faster around turns. AWD is simply a safety net. And you get stuck a lot less with AWD.
And did I say I was going to race on the street? There are tracks you know.
Obviously a 194whp bike will kick the crap out of a 250hp sedan...contrary to the popular belief in this thread, I am not retarded. But even if the S4 has 500 more pounds, 50 more hp is more significant that that.
And yes, I know that the S4 is significantly faster than the GTi. Even though I am a "crap" driver

I may be a 16 year old kid, but I can drive safely. And being 16 does not mean I can't give advice. I've saved my friends cars before because they were going too fast into a turn for the conditions and I've had to yell at them to start braking.

I can't say for sure I won't crash or beat on my first car, but I do know my limits.






Anyway, this thread has turned into a flame-freestyler-fest, regardless of when he is right or wrong. I think it needs to be closed. Thank you to everyone who actually responded to the topic. Thank you to those of you who tried to give me advice without getting bitchy and basically flaming me.
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Old 03-18-2009, 02:33 PM   #85
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Default Re: Reasons I Need A Car

Quote:
Originally Posted by freestyler105 View Post

Anyway, this thread has turned into a flame-freestyler-fest, regardless of when he is right or wrong. I think it needs to be closed. Thank you to everyone who actually responded to the topic. Thank you to those of you who tried to give me advice without getting bitchy and basically flaming me.
I don't see any flaming. All I see is lots of people disagreeing with you.


On another note..I can't help but laugh at some of the kids on this forum who are barely old enough to be able to reach the door handle of a car let alone drive one handing out advice on how to drive.
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Old 03-18-2009, 02:36 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by freestyler105 View Post
I see what you mean...but I guess I just don't see it as expensive as you guys do. Sure, I could get an okay car for $3k. But I go to school and see all the brand new Mustangs, BMWs, Mercedes, GTis, etc and $12k doesn't seem all that terrible to me.
Obviously it is a LOT of money, but from my perspective when my mom just spent $40k on a car and my dad is about to spend even more on one for himself...
You just sound jealous of all the other cars. Those people shouldn't have cars like that either IMHO. I visited my family in the US in the summer of 2001 and my cousins all said that the students all had better cars than the staff. It's a ridiculous popularity contest for young people, and it's really quite sad. The staff are older, more mature and sensible about their transportation arrangements.

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Originally Posted by freestyler105 View Post
There are a couple kids that I would like to take to the track to shut them up...

In particular this one kid has a VW GTi VR6, he thinks it is the greatest car ever. It's really not a bad car, but he makes it sound like the ultimate drag racing machine.
Again, you're just wanting the car so you can prove something. Prove something? More like compensate for something.

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Originally Posted by –88 View Post
I think you're getting the wrong idea too freestyler. We all know exactly what you're feeling. We were all 16 once (some of us not yet) and a lot of us wanted to look cool in front of our friends. When i was 16 I was looking for a car to buy and I found a Dodge Stealth R/T I wanted in the worst way. I told my parents that I would pay back all the money the would have to give me to buy it. It was expensive...

Unfortunately my parents aren't the type to hand those sort of things to me. What they ended up buying me was an 1988 GMC Sierra that they paid about $2500 for. Rusty as fuck. I was embarrassed for a while when chunks of rust would fall off it and people would tell me that my truck is falling apart but you know what? It was all in good fun. We laughed about it more than anything and I soon realized that most people don't give a shit what you drive, especially at that age. The people who judge you for it..well they can be ignored and no body gives a f*** what they think.

So save your money, get something affordable and you'll simply appreciate having wheels of your own to get around. Most kids crash their first vehicle within a year or so, so after that maybe you can get the car you want.
All true. Hell, I want an Aston Martin DB9 but father dear won't buy me one. He drives a £25k Saab and he bought my brother a £7.5k used Skoda... both great cars and sensible cars for the uses for which they were bought.

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Originally Posted by setishock View Post
I'd put you in an Audi or even a Saab. Those brands are built like tanks and should you try to prove two objects can co-exist in the same place at the same time and be proven wrong, you'd still be around to tell your kids about it.
Besides, from your story, your dad made the offer to put your butt in that if you kept your grades up. So if you did it's time for dad to put his money where his mouth is.
Yes, my dad has a Saab and you won't believe the number of times he's crashed into stuff and caused hardly any damage at all. The thing is invincible. He got rear-ended at the lights, he had a scratched back bumper and the car behind had to be scrapped; I'm not even kidding.

One thing about Saabs; they're great cars, but they're expensive to run and often expensive to repair. The small damage my dad did cause to his was seriously expensive (broke a wing mirror: £400 repair costs. On my mum's Toyota it cost £85 including labour).

But I disagree on one thing: his dad shouldn't just be buying him a car of his choice (within a certain budget) as a reward for good grades at high school.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teny View Post
seems like an typical high school kid trying to be popular and lucky to me.
Yes. He saw the other high-performance cars and has jumped on the bandwagon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teny View Post
if you get into an accident, it will cost a fortune to repair if the damage is bad, and it will just make your insurance spike up even more, and im pretty sure its already high considering you are a teen with an audi.
Yes. I'd be pretty amazed if they even insured you at all for a high-powered Audi at age 16.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teny View Post
Seriously, think it through. Theres a lot of cars I wanted to get, and wanted my parents to get it for me, and they didnt, Im actually quite happy, and I dont seem to want the car anymore. I think its more of a phase you are going through.
Yeah, I want a DB9, a Bugatti Veyron, Ferrari 599, Bentley Continental GT, Audi R8... but I can't afford them. I can't justify them either.

You'll likely end up buying a brand new Audi a few years down the line and it'll be all the more satisfying. I really can't understand people who go on and on about how they absolutely have to have a car and can't listen to reason when they're told that, in a practical sense, they really don't need onoe at all.

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Originally Posted by Lowndsey View Post
you should feel bad for accepting a car with that price tag if that is the case. You don't need a car with that price tag. At 16 you don't NEED a car fullstop. And I don't think getting good grades is reason to be deserving a car like that being given to you.
I disapprove of young people owning their own cars anyway. Really, I'm insured on my parents' cars and although they're not mine, they're stylish and in good condition. People I know who have their own cars have laughable junk because it's all they can afford. It looks ridiculous and they often can't justify owning them in any case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freestyler105 View Post
They wouldn't buy it for me if it would be a burden on our family financially. No, I don't NEED a car (I phrased that wrong), but it would be convenient and a lot of fun.
You just proved my point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freestyler105 View Post
Clearly, you did not exactly take the most difficult classes in high school. I definitely earned it. There are members here who can attest to that.
I have a First Class Honours degree in Computer Science. Even then, I feel very, very stupid compared to some people. Getting decent grades in high school courses which are totally irrelevant to the real world really isn't something to get high and mighty about, or boast about.

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Originally Posted by freestyler105 View Post
I do not want a car to race and show off. That was a side thing, I just said I wanted to shut him up about his GTi. I want a car for the convenience and PERSONAL pleasure of working on it. Not to show off or because it's "cool".
Bollocks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by –88 View Post
Let's go back to the reason you posted this thread. You want excuses to give your parents to convince them to buy you a car. So far, everything you suggested that you're going to say is a lie. You don't care about the convenience. You don't care about having more time to do school work and you couldn't care less about getting a job.

Admit it. The only reason to get this car is so you can race that pompous GTi douche. While you may not beat him in the first race you will learn that you lack discipline in your driving abilities and will thus take it upon yourself to meet with Vin Diesel and convince him to teach you the ways of the street racing scene. Months will pass and, while at first Vin had little faith in your skills, he soon realizes that after you nearly beat his best time challenging Blood Run Pass that it seems you really do have what it takes. Maybe you will usurp his crown as Road King.

... snip ...
Sums it up in a much more entertaining fashion than I had thought.

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Originally Posted by freestyler105 View Post
And the middle class is a wide range. I'd say my family is in the upper middle class, mostly because both my parents work. The upper class is the select richest, most powerful people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class
I am from an "upper-middle-class" background and my parents earn ~£110k a year between them. I went to a private school for my entire school career from aged 5 to 18. My parents are not rushing out to buy me an overpowered sports saloon and I'm 21 and have no claims so my insurance is cheaper than yours.

You're not "upper-middle-class" just because both your parents work. Would you call yourself that if your mum was a hooker and your dad a carpet-fitter?

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My dad made a deal with me though, regardless of whether or not you guys think it's fair.
Not fair/unfair as opposed to stupid. You say your parents have secure jobs? That's what I thought about my mum. She went from earning £40k a year to redundant, overnight and without warning.

Your parents buy you this thing, then they suddenly lose their jobs in similar circumstances? You'll be feeling pretty stupid then when your house gets repossessed.
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Old 03-18-2009, 02:46 PM   #87
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Default Re: Reasons I Need A Car

lol.. now that ive had my driving lesson from a 16 year old kid.. i will feel safer..

the easiest thing, and safest thing i do in snow is to go slowly and not use too much power.. no matter what car you have, fwd, awd, rwd, they can all be caught out by snow.. and personally, if i know i have a car which can deal with it slightly better.. i would push on a little more.. and be more likely to have a crash.

if you keep on going on about needing to be able to drive it in the snow, having all that power isnt going to help you.. you would be alot more likely to try to push on too fast, and make a mistake, and wrap it around something..


you do not drive safely at 16. period. you need experience at driving to get good at it.. im 21, and have been driving just over 3 years, and i know i still have alot to learn about driving, and im nowhere near the best, or safest driver out there.. that comes with experience.

from what youve been saying in this thread.. i would vote that you dont have a clue about driving..
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Old 03-18-2009, 04:44 PM   #88
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Default Re: Reasons I Need A Car

Oh yeah, if your really concerned about safety, Volvo makes alot of AWD cars that are far more safe than any audio. And they will beat it out in the snow by far handling wise.
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Old 03-18-2009, 05:12 PM   #89
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UK...£7.5k is more than $12k.
My dads earnings are dependent upon his company, and my mom probably makes a little over $100k. That would be upper middle class. If only one of my parents worked, I would only be mid-middle class.
Just because I have a used $12k Audi and my teacher has a new $25k Civic. My car might be nicer, but it's also older and worth a lot less.
When did I boast about my grades? I said I am proud of them...that's not boasting.
You say there is no flaming...while UK just insinuated that I have a small penis...
And I said that I do not need one, but I would like one. It would not even be my car, it would be my father's, with me as a secondary driver.
Okay, sure, I just want the car to race it


I said I can drive safely. Do I always? No. But in bad conditions I can drive pretty safely. I'd be willing to bet I'm more likely to get in an accident on a 75 degree sunny day than during a winter storm.


Chris, let's check out the price of a new AWD Volvo S40, the smallest Volvo sedan. Well over $30k. Almost 3 times the price of that Audi.
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Old 03-18-2009, 05:18 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by freestyler105 View Post
I may be a 16 year old kid, but I can drive safely. And being 16 does not mean I can't give advice. I've saved my friends cars before because they were going too fast into a turn for the conditions and I've had to yell at them to start braking.

I can't say for sure I won't crash or beat on my first car, but I do know my limits.
It's not that we're not trusting your judgment about what safe driving is, it's the fact that you're 16 years old and no 16 year old can possible have the driving experience necessary to ensure safe driving. Throwing a 16 year old behind the wheel of a fast car is always a recipe for disaster.
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