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Old 06-19-2010, 01:43 AM   #11501
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:37 AM   #11502
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I Just found out i can use Dreamspark!!!

Time to download XNA!
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Old 06-19-2010, 06:00 AM   #11503
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Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
Okay. So idk if I explained that I was going to take my PA system (This, 2 of these, and this) to my church to see how it sounded. Well, here's the low down.

Scenario 1
-Put amp/speakers up in the rear projector room (behind the screen seen in this picture; okay, I couldn't find the updated picture. This is before the screen was put in, but it's high on that wall where that other framed thing is). I figured, "hey, if we can hide the speakers up there and get sound thrown out the projector screen, that's awesome."

-I had to run a 60" cable (homemade, with about 5 spliced sections of wire, nonetheless!) with RCAs on the ends. I didn't have ANYTHING to do TRS with to output from the mixer. Here's how I had it: 2 RCA spliced down to a single wire run then spliced back up to two RCAs on the other end. (Keep this in mind as I talk about quality later on.)

-In order to get the microphones to the mixer, I had to use a jumble of XLR cables. Both microphones are connected by various strands of XLR cabling. It's all pre-bought, but only one cable was super high quality (from monoprice). The others were ones that came with my Alesis Mixer (not alesis cords, though) when I got that with a podcast package. Again, this might have something to do with the quality that I'll discuss.

-Put the mixer down stairs (where I'll need to be to control the projector with the laptop).

Conclusion 1: sounded not great. Granted, anything is better than what we have now, but... Okay. Here's what it sounded like. Music was pretty decent (played a variety), but the microphones were not (in fact, the old system sounded fine for the mics...kinda). What was happening was that I could not get the microphones to go loud enough without ringing. Also, when someone would talk during mic checks, right at the end of the phrase you were saying it would "ring" for just a split second after the person finished speaking. You had to get really close to the microphone for it to pick up your voice (this leads me to believe that the microphones may need replacing). Okay. Backup here for a second. One microphone was terrible. The other one seemed to be decent. The decent one was an AudioTechnica. The other one had no brand on it--that one was the junker. You had to get sooooo close for it to pick up your voice. HOWEVER it wasn't mounted correctly. Instead of being directly in front of your mouth, it was mounted at a 90* angle (and most condenser microphones don't like to work at a 90* angle...which is why I think I had to get so close to it) The AudioTechnica was straight on with the vocal projection line.

The other issue was echoing. I think it was because it was placed in a small room, with no sound insulation, trying to escape it through a 10' projector screen. Dumb idea...sooooo
Do the job properly man. When it comes to things like this I get OCD big time! I can't help it.

Seriously the best thing to do is look at your wiring first. I'm not sure what kind of wiring you've made but it seems that the cable from the mixer to amps is only just ok. I thought the input connections on the amp's were TRS/XLR? And really the best connections to use are the Main Outs with balanced connections.

With regards to the mic's, check the spec's of the mic's and see if they require phantom power. If they do switch it on, it's on the back of the mixer. Also check the pad switches on the mic channels and use the LPF switches to reduce low-Fq feedback. And adjusting the EQ on the mic channels helps with acoustic feedback also. The only thing the projector screen will do is absorb some of the high Fq from the speakers - not a bad thing if they're overly bright and they're in a reflective room otherwise they might sound muddy/dull. But once you have the set-up running sweet you can move and adjust the speakers accordingly.

Ooo and you'd be surprised with some condenser mic's sensitivity patterns - it depends on the type of mic. If in doubt post the mic specs here.

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Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
Scenario 2
-Lugged the speakers and stands down stairs and put them in front of each podium. Was still using all the same cabling (including the unfortunately crappy RCA line out from the mixer).
Cabling dude!

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Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
Conclusion 2:
-Microphones were the same result. I mean, they were loud enough for me, but for an older person or a person hard of hearing, I don't think they'll cut it (well, the one crappy non-branded one). I wasn't pleased at all.

-Ringing was reduced, but still not a great improvement. (It seemed to only have problems with speaking tones and speaking volume. I sang an array of a cappella stuff which all sounded fine, surprisingly)

-Music sounded fine.

-Echoing was greatly reduced.
Yea totally different surroundings.

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So what now? Any ideas for solutions to these issues before I go and buy $1,000 worth of stuff? I mean, it is all better than what we have (we can't play ANY music now without distortion). Do you think the crap-ass cabling I did has a lot to do with it? I have a feeling that it does. We could also due with replacing that crappy microphone.

If someone really thinks that wall mounting these up higher would help things, let me know and I guess I can look into it. But a church with 45 people on a Sunday doesn't have much money.
First of get some nice twisted core cabling with the right connectors and fix them up nice like the ones you get from the shops. Make sure you use new cabling for mic's too. Once you got all that sorted connect it all up. Remember to use the phantom power if needed - switch this on before the main power. You don't need to spend huge amounts on equipment as you already have it but at least connect it all with nice cable.

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Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
Guys, I need some help.

I was at my church and I was trying to output sound into the Alesis mixer.
What are you trying to send to the mixer?

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Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
It worked fine last night, now today I was using a different cable and now I can't even get sound to come out of the laptop speakers, let alone use the headphone jack.
So you have the laptop connected to the mixer and you want to send sound to the laptop?


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Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
I can see the sound going (when you open volume control) but I hear nothing. I tried for like an hour to get it to work. I'm so frustrated. Frustrated enough that I'm having a red bull/margarita. FML. I wish shit would just work. Ever day there's something that goes wrong.
If you can get me diagrams and tell me what kind of leads your using it's be easier to understand.

I understand the lack of funds, i'm still investing in my set up with little money coming in, but it makes things much easier when you don't have to suspect the basic things like cabling as well as settings on equipment.

That reminds me. I gotta go price up some TRS-TRS leads I gotta make up and a Behringer HA4700...
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Old 06-19-2010, 02:45 PM   #11504
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Originally Posted by Remeniz View Post
Do the job properly man. When it comes to things like this I get OCD big time! I can't help it.

Seriously the best thing to do is look at your wiring first. I'm not sure what kind of wiring you've made but it seems that the cable from the mixer to amps is only just ok. I thought the input connections on the amp's were TRS/XLR? And really the best connections to use are the Main Outs with balanced connections.
Here's the issue. Like I said, we have no funding until after we test this out. Which means I have no money to go buy cables with. Hence, I had to make my own. It's completely and utterly jury rigged, and I'm going to have to explain to them that it's the best I could do with no money. Right now, the mics are connected with true XLR cables (nothing homemade) but I'm having to use the 2-track out on the Alesis with RCA cables to get to the amp. At the amp end, I have to push the RCA L/R's into TS 3.5mm plugs, and then adapt those into stereo 1/4" TRS plugs. It's literally the only connectors I have that will work. I have nothing else. It worked fine in my room, but I didn't have it going through 50' of crap-ass wiring. I have a feeling this is where the faint hum in the speakers is coming from. I think there may be binding post inputs on the Peavey amp, so I'm going to cut off the RCA ends and try going in that way to see if there is an improvement eliminating those adapters. FML.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remeniz View Post
With regards to the mic's, check the spec's of the mic's and see if they require phantom power. If they do switch it on, it's on the back of the mixer. Also check the pad switches on the mic channels and use the LPF switches to reduce low-Fq feedback. And adjusting the EQ on the mic channels helps with acoustic feedback also. The only thing the projector screen will do is absorb some of the high Fq from the speakers - not a bad thing if they're overly bright and they're in a reflective room otherwise they might sound muddy/dull. But once you have the set-up running sweet you can move and adjust the speakers accordingly.
So you think that it should have sounded okay from the room? I'll of course try them up there again with the new setup at some point if we get funding but...I don't know. I really had to crank the speakers (in the open, I had them at about 1/2, in that room I had to push them to 3/4 volume at the amp) to get sound out from up there...and I have a feeling it's because it's bouncing to high hell off the walls in the room up there.

I'll try and find the specs but..I'm running them with Phantom on anyways.

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Ooo and you'd be surprised with some condenser mic's sensitivity patterns - it depends on the type of mic. If in doubt post the mic specs here.
I was able to KINDA get it sorted out. It's not great but....

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Originally Posted by Remeniz View Post
First of get some nice twisted core cabling with the right connectors and fix them up nice like the ones you get from the shops. Make sure you use new cabling for mic's too. Once you got all that sorted connect it all up. Remember to use the phantom power if needed - switch this on before the main power. You don't need to spend huge amounts on equipment as you already have it but at least connect it all with nice cable.
Like I said....no money yet. I've got to get this through their heads.

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Originally Posted by Remeniz View Post
What are you trying to send to the mixer?

So you have the laptop connected to the mixer and you want to send sound to the laptop?
I was trying to connect the laptop's 3.5mm headphone out jack into the 1/4" input on the Alesis so that I could control the volume from the mixer. If you use the USB cable with the laptop, you can't control the laptop independently anymore.

The issue now is that I can't get the laptop sound to work at all. Even independently. I have a feeling I really f-d something up. I can't get the audio to play through the LAPTOP speakers, or the headphone jack. I've uninstalled and reinstalled audio drivers twice, checked all the settings..and nothing. It worked two nights ago, then yesterday morning I came back, hooked everything back up, and then nothing. FML. Would Phantom have killed that laptop sound?
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Old 06-19-2010, 03:59 PM   #11505
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All future England matches have been moved to a gay adult channel, apparently the sight of 11 arseholes getting hammered frequently for 90min was far to explicit for TV..!
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:24 PM   #11506
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Still need help. New developments at the bottom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
Guys, I need some help.

I was at my church and I was trying to output sound into the Alesis mixer. It worked fine last night, now today I was using a different cable and now I can't even get sound to come out of the laptop speakers, let alone use the headphone jack. I can see the sound going (when you open volume control) but I hear nothing. I tried for like an hour to get it to work. I'm so frustrated. Frustrated enough that I'm having a red bull/margarita. FML. I wish shit would just work. Ever day there's something that goes wrong.
vvvv

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Originally Posted by Remeniz View Post
What are you trying to send to the mixer?

So you have the laptop connected to the mixer and you want to send sound to the laptop?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
I was trying to connect the laptop's 3.5mm headphone out jack into the 1/4" input on the Alesis so that I could control the volume from the mixer. If you use the USB cable with the laptop, you can't control the laptop independently anymore.

The issue now is that I can't get the laptop sound to work at all. Even independently. I have a feeling I really f-d something up. I can't get the audio to play through the LAPTOP speakers, or the headphone jack. I've uninstalled and reinstalled audio drivers twice, checked all the settings..and nothing. It worked two nights ago, then yesterday morning I came back, hooked everything back up, and then nothing. FML. Would Phantom have killed that laptop sound?
I just tried connecting to my stereo which connects through USB (using it's own drivers). It worked just fine. I still have no audio output through the headphones or speakers. I'm not sure what else to try. I'm not liking HP right now. F-in ridiculous.
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:42 PM   #11507
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Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
...I have a feeling this is where the faint hum in the speakers is coming from. I think there may be binding post inputs on the Peavey amp, so I'm going to cut off the RCA ends and try going in that way to see if there is an improvement eliminating those adapters. FML.
If you do this make sure you connect the 'negative' terminal to 'ground' which you then connect to the cable ground and run the core to 'positive' terminal. See here, page 10.

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Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
So you think that it should have sounded okay from the room? I'll of course try them up there again with the new setup at some point if we get funding but...I don't know. I really had to crank the speakers (in the open, I had them at about 1/2, in that room I had to push them to 3/4 volume at the amp) to get sound out from up there...and I have a feeling it's because it's bouncing to high hell off the walls in the room up there.
This might be to to with the way you've configured the RCA's. Go with connecting them to the Input Barrier Strip on the amp as stated in the manual. Do it wrong and you reduce the signal by 6db. Volume wise thats like killing 2 speaker channels from an equally amp'd 4 channel set up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
I was trying to connect the laptop's 3.5mm headphone out jack into the 1/4" input on the Alesis so that I could control the volume from the mixer...

Would Phantom have killed that laptop sound?
Quite possibly, yes. 48V applied to any un-balanced audio equipment is likely to kill the input/out stage. The best way would be to use the Tape In, switch phantom power off or use a DI box.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
I just tried connecting to my stereo which connects through USB (using it's own drivers). It worked just fine. I still have no audio output through the headphones or speakers. I'm not sure what else to try. I'm not liking HP right now. F-in ridiculous.
It will work via USB as the audio channels are sent digitally via USB. The analogue audio output side of the laptop may be screwed.
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:53 PM   #11508
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Originally Posted by Remeniz View Post
If you do this make sure you connect the 'negative' terminal to 'ground' which you then connect to the cable ground and run the core to 'positive' terminal. See here, page 10.

This might be to to with the way you've configured the RCA's. Go with connecting them to the Input Barrier Strip on the amp as stated in the manual. Do it wrong and you reduce the signal by 6db. Volume wise thats like killing 2 speaker channels from an equally amp'd 4 channel set up.
I'll mess with that this week.

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Originally Posted by Remeniz View Post
Quite possibly, yes. 48V applied to any un-balanced audio equipment is likely to kill the input/out stage. The best way would be to use the Tape In, switch phantom power off or use a DI box.

It will work via USB as the audio channels are sent digitally via USB. The analogue audio output side of the laptop may be screwed.
FML. Now I have to send it in. At least I bought the warranty.
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Old 06-19-2010, 04:56 PM   #11509
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FML. Now I have to send it in. At least I bought the warranty.
I feel for ya man!
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Old 06-19-2010, 05:00 PM   #11510
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Okay, start from the beginning. What have you purchased so far? What are you planning to use?
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