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Old 06-14-2010, 11:35 AM   #11361
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I'm sleep deprived (majorly) and I need someone who is good with audio to explain this to me (hopefully Remeniz will see this!!!!).

I'm working on a wiring plan for my church. All the old XLR microphone connectors need to go..they are old. Like from the 70s. And junk. As is the cable. So, I figured, hey, let's do double duty. If someone ever wanted to plug guitar into the PA system, it'd be nice not using freaking adapters (I mean, no one I know has a TS -> XLR-M cable!)...so I am looking at selecting this for the jacks on the wall that are auxiliary (i.e. 2 XLRs are ALWAYS used for microphones, so we don't need combo jacks; just the other 2 need to be combo jacks).

Anyways. I'm so confused with TS/TRS/XLR/Unbal/Bal the whole nine yards.

This is how I want it to function.

Combo Jack -> ONE WIRE RUN (2 conductor shielded) -> Male XLR -> Alesis Multimix 8 USB

So, in other words, I want the XLR part of the combo jack to be balanced for the microphones, but I want the 1/4" part to be unbalanced (??) to accept an instrument cable (guitar/keyboard/etc) so I'm assuming I'd get the MONO version? BUT I want to wire it all into just the one run of wire (which is fine...they obviously won't both be in use at the same time).

I know that that will all work. But what I want to know is if someone knows if the Alesis mixer will accept that unbalanced mono line (from a guitar, for instance) into it's XLR input. THAT is the question that I can't figure out the answer to.

I know that was long for the RCC thread, but I feel like I keep creating threads lately haha.

EDIT: Okay, in theory all of that should work because it's basically just creating this cable. So, the question is, then, could I take "that cable" (really, the one I'm creating above, though) and plug it into my guitar and the XLR input on the Alesis and have everything work correctly? WOULD PHANTOM POWER RUIN THIS? (it'll need to be on for the mics)...
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:52 AM   #11362
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no, no, no...

Guitars are hi-z. Micropones are low-z. If you want to connect your guitar directly to the board, you need a DI box, which is connected to your guitar and the board. They are kinda pricey for something worth a damn. Balanced isn't of any importance here because its an impedance issue.

I'd suggest just micing your cab.
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:55 PM   #11363
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Default Re: Random Chit Chat

Hey guys, out of curiosity, why did flxjones get banned?
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Doesn't "loatheing" something the same as "love?" Whenever i hear it be used the person "loves" that product or service or whatever it is they're talking about.
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Old 06-14-2010, 12:56 PM   #11364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
I'm sleep deprived (majorly) and I need someone who is good with audio to explain this to me (hopefully Remeniz will see this!!!!).
Get some sleep man

Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
I'm working on a wiring plan for my church. All the old XLR microphone connectors need to go..they are old. Like from the 70s. And junk. As is the cable. So, I figured, hey, let's do double duty. If someone ever wanted to plug guitar into the PA system, it'd be nice not using freaking adapters (I mean, no one I know has a TS -> XLR-M cable!)...so I am looking at selecting this for the jacks on the wall that are auxiliary (i.e. 2 XLRs are ALWAYS used for microphones, so we don't need combo jacks; just the other 2 need to be combo jacks).
Thats a great idea. Have a look at this. Make sure the combi jack has at least 6 terminals, not 5 like the first one. This means you can utilise a balanced line from the combi connector to the XLR plug at the other end. I'll explain later in this response...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
This is how I want it to function.

Combo Jack -> ONE WIRE RUN (2 conductor shielded) -> Male XLR -> Alesis Multimix 8 USB

So, in other words, I want the XLR part of the combo jack to be balanced for the microphones, but I want the 1/4" part to be unbalanced (??) to accept an instrument cable (guitar/keyboard/etc) so I'm assuming I'd get the MONO version? BUT I want to wire it all into just the one run of wire (which is fine...they obviously won't both be in use at the same time).
You would get the stereo version, or the TRS(tip-ring-sleeve) version. Again this makes the line, from the combi socket to the XLR plug balanced and means you can connect balanced stuff via TRS too. You see, when you plug an unbalanced TS(tip-Sleeve) plug into the combi the tip(hot) connects to the hot core in the balanced lead and the sleeve of the TS plug shorts the cold and ground cores of the lead. Just pluging in the TS plug makes the whole cable run, from Combi to XLR, un-balanced; perfect! Also the mixer you have accepts balanced/un-balanced connections; super perfect!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
I know that that will all work. But what I want to know is if someone knows if the Alesis mixer will accept that unbalanced mono line (from a guitar, for instance) into it's XLR input. THAT is the question that I can't figure out the answer to.
Well the previous text answers this question. The mixer's happy with balanced/un-balanced signals/connectors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dude_56013 View Post
EDIT: Okay, in theory all of that should work because it's basically just creating this cable. So, the question is, then, could I take "that cable" (really, the one I'm creating above, though) and plug it into my guitar and the XLR input on the Alesis and have everything work correctly?
Well you automatically create that, un-balanced, cable when you plug in an un-balanced TS jack into the combi. Otherwise what your 'going to make' is a balanced combi TRS/XLR socket to XLR plug cable.


Quote:
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WOULD PHANTOM POWER RUIN THIS? (it'll need to be on for the mics)...
That is why the whole thing, from combi socket to XLR plug needs to be balanced.

Also guitars have very high output impedances and don't like to be loaded by low input impedances of some mixers/equipment. Not that it will damage anything but it won't sound good. The mixer does have pad controls which might help or even better would be to use an effects insert point on the mixer but this would render your cable making void. So either use a DI box or mic up a guitar amp, as already suggested.

I'll try and come up with a drawing later.

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Old 06-14-2010, 12:56 PM   #11365
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PB- Got dropped on his head at birth.
Apparently.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:06 PM   #11366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Remeniz View Post
You would get the stereo version, or the TRS(tip-ring-sleeve) version. Again this makes the line, from the combi socket to the XLR plug balanced and means you can connect balanced stuff via TRS too. You see, when you plug an unbalanced TS(tip-Sleeve) plug into the combi the tip(hot) connects to the hot core in the balanced lead and the sleeve of the TS plug shorts the cold and ground cores of the lead. Just pluging in the TS plug makes the whole cable run, from Combi to XLR, un-balanced; perfect! Also the mixer you have accepts balanced/un-balanced connections; super perfect!
Can't do this!!! A guitar needs a DI box before it can run into an XLR input. Now if you are looking at the balanced/unbalanced output of a keyboard or synth, then yes, that can be connected to the XLR input of a mixing board. But not a guitar.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:09 PM   #11367
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Default Re: Random Chit Chat

Must I repost?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krone6 View Post
Doesn't "loatheing" something the same as "love?" Whenever i hear it be used the person "loves" that product or service or whatever it is they're talking about.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:12 PM   #11368
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check out the banning thread for answers.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:13 PM   #11369
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Default Re: Random Chit Chat

Where is it? Sorry, I'm not completely acquainted with the various forums.
Edit: Never mind, I found it and I know the smilies codes :P
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Quote:
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Doesn't "loatheing" something the same as "love?" Whenever i hear it be used the person "loves" that product or service or whatever it is they're talking about.
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Old 06-14-2010, 01:26 PM   #11370
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Can't do this!!! A guitar needs a DI box before it can run into an XLR input. Now if you are looking at the balanced/unbalanced output of a keyboard or synth, then yes, that can be connected to the XLR input of a mixing board. But not a guitar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remeniz View Post
...Also guitars have very high output impedances and don't like to be loaded by low input impedances of some mixers/equipment. Not that it will damage anything but it won't sound good. The mixer does have pad controls which might help or even better would be to use an effects insert point on the mixer but this would render your cable making void. So either use a DI box or mic up a guitar amp, as already suggested.

I'll try and come up with a drawing later.

You can plug the guitar, via a DI box like the Behringer DI100, into the combi socket that is wired to the XLR plug that goes into the mixer. The stereo version combi socket is ideal.
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