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Old 09-27-2011, 03:00 PM   #31
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

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I personally have no respect whatsoever for the catholic church. I had to put up with their hateful bullshit for 11 years, until it drove me into suicidal depression. I have a friend who was in a similar position a while back, so it's not an isolated thing.
I went to a christian primary school, and spent alot of time i nthe church. Not even sure what xian demonination it was, but it wasn't catholic. It got the the point where i dreaded every day.

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I'm curious as well... if you don't believe in evolution, then how do you explain why you have to get a flu shot every year? How is animal domestication possible if every species remains unchanged? Why is it that more similar species tend to share more genetic patterns?




Okay, excellent. It seems like most theists get offended by the mere fact that other opinions exist. Anyway, I think I'll spare you a full explanation on my feelings about Christianity... last time I did, the person contacted me a few weeks later to thank me for converting them. Lol.
I'd quite like to hear your full feelings on christianity, since i've grown up alienated by it, and been through the trauma of people trying to force it on me.
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Old 09-27-2011, 03:03 PM   #32
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

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I'm curious as well... if you don't believe in evolution, then how do you explain why you have to get a flu shot every year? How is animal domestication possible if every species remains unchanged? Why is it that more similar species tend to share more genetic patterns?
Since you posted that this question was for me, I'll respond

I do believe in evolution. You can't disprove it, plain and simple. I just don't believe we evolved from nothing. I believe there was a baseline species created, then allowed to change as needed for survival. However, I explain a flu shot every year by way of pharmaceutical companies filling their wallets. NOTHING on this earth evolves on a 365 day schedule, but something that requires financial means to treat miraculously does...
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Old 09-27-2011, 03:07 PM   #33
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

Just like every other industry, there's an evil presence. Unfortunately the pharmaceutical companies have linked arms and become one and the same with cosmetic companies, things like cosmetic plastic surgery and the distribution of pharmaceutical type cosmetic products. Medicine is a fantastic thing and we'd be doomed without medical science in some form, but pharmaceutical companies are the evil denomination, corrupt like most big-money industries such as the oil drilling and banking.
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Old 09-27-2011, 03:11 PM   #34
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

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Just like every other industry, there's an evil presence. Unfortunately the pharmaceutical companies have linked arms and become one and the same with cosmetic companies, things like cosmetic plastic surgery and the distribution of pharmaceutical type cosmetic products. Medicine is a fantastic thing and we'd be doomed without medical science in some form, but pharmaceutical companies are the evil denomination, corrupt like most big-money industries such as the oil drilling and banking.
Hey now, I work for a refinery that is Marathon up until Friday at least, no one seems to corrupt here.
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Old 09-27-2011, 03:13 PM   #35
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

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Hey now, I work for a refinery that is Marathon up until Friday at least, no one seems to corrupt here.
I didn't mean corruption on the lower levels, I'm talking about the big-money executives that drive around in rollers and continue to destroy our planet and often our landscape in order to find more oil.
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Old 09-27-2011, 03:25 PM   #36
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

As a side note.

I agree with just about everything Darkseeker and Foothead are eluding to, whether that be intentional or not. Religion is a sham.

I do not, and probably never will, attend church. When you have organized religion you have a man/woman telling you what God wants. Religion gives God a bad name. Ask yourselves this: IF there were no organized churches/religions, and IF nobody ever told you that there was a God. Would you be more inclined to believe a possible existence had that thought come to mind? I believe the answer to that question to be yes. Almost everybody has a bad taste for religion due to man. It's not God that tells you you're going to hell when you do something you honestly believed to have been harmless. It's not God that stops you in the street and tells you to believe in him. It's man, in an attempt to get you to attend their church. Why? More people attending = more money collected. We see these 'representatives' of God acting in an unscrupulous manner and therefore, deny that God exists. If they represent God, what does that say about God? I'm absolutely not trying to say that your beliefs are merely the product of a bad experience with religion. That would discredit and invalidate your beliefs which I'm absolutely not trying to do. My point is only that religion is turning more people away from God than it's making believers out of. Organized religion is the splinter in the foot of progress... not God.
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Old 09-27-2011, 03:44 PM   #37
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

Religion, with morals, kindness, and belief in a deity; is fine, go ahead by all means.

However, organised religion, like iPwn said; is a sham. It's the root of most of the world's conflicts. Consider the conflicts in palestine, between islamists/muslims and jews. If everyone believed something different, and no longer defined themself as muslim or jewish, there would be no fighting, the two groups could get along and live together without conflict. But, because one group is clearly defined as jewish, and the other as muslim, they fight for control of the land. Many politicians have said that 'god has influenced their decisions' or words to that effect, and many people have come to think of that as one of the reasons that western forces have been in the middle east for so long, sticking their nose in.

In the end, it's groups of religious people; not religious beliefs in general, that cause the problems.

and the worst offenders of all, seems to be devout christians and jehovah's witnesses. They try to impose their beliefs on others around them, and create conflicts with the very people that they are trying to 'recruit'.
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Old 09-27-2011, 03:48 PM   #38
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

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You could say. But so is culture. So is everything. None of us is original, we're the combined effort of everyone we know. The same way a compact disk isn't responsible for what's recorded on it, that's how we are. You're about as free to act as a programmed computer. You're about as one-of-a-kind as a dollar bill. And if you can find any way out of our culture, then that's a trap too. Just wanting to get out of the trap reinforces the trap.

Good answer. I don't totally agree, but I definitely see your point here.

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It's not just the Catholic church, it's all of the churches, organizations, corporations, governments... There are radicals. And the radicals will attack you if you aren't on their side. They give a bad name to the Catholic church, but they don't represent the real beliefs of the church. My priest always told me, we are an open religion, and accepting of everything and everyone, and that's what I believe. And I know a lot of Catholics say differently, but I think they are wrong.
The thing is that we're not talking random members of the Catholic Church. My school only taught what came from the Vatican. So they definitely represent the real beliefs of the church. It doesn't necessarily mean it matches the beliefs of its members, but the church as an institution definitely does believe that.

I know this is probably a controversial thing to say, but in my opinion, teaching Catholicism to children constitutes child abuse. Not only does it create a deep sense of self-loathing, but it also encourages extreme discrimination against whatever groups the church decides it doesn't like.

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Originally Posted by ~Darkseeker~ View Post
I went to a christian primary school, and spent alot of time i nthe church. Not even sure what xian demonination it was, but it wasn't catholic. It got the the point where i dreaded every day.
Yeah, I remember that feeling. All I had to look forward to was being bullied over my (percieved) sexuality and having everyone refuse to associate with me.

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I'd quite like to hear your full feelings on christianity, since i've grown up alienated by it, and been through the trauma of people trying to force it on me.
I'll give you a condensed version, since I could probably write a small book on this subject.

<Warning, strong opinions>

Well, obviously I believe none of it is real. Maybe Jesus existed in some form, but definitely not as described in the bible. But as far as the beliefs, whenever I read the bible, God just seems to be pure evil. He created people for his own amusement, and so he can have someone worship him. He was also supposed to be all knowing, yet he created people so they would naturally want to rebel, which he then uses as justification for eternal torture. IMO, there is NOTHING anyone can do that warrants eternal torture. He also seems to be so quick to slaughter people, seemingly for fun. Yet, for some reason, Satan is supposed to be the embodiment of evil for rebelling against this tyrant. Yeah, no. In the entire bible, he kills maybe 10 people, 15 max. How many does God kill? Well, just based off the numbers that are specifically stated, it's 2,391,421 (thanks google).

Here are some specific examples of what I'm talking about:

First off, the book of Exodus. The Pharaoh won't release the Jewish people, so God decides that the best course of action is to punish the entire country. He creates famines, poisons the water supply, and kills off all the livestock. It doesn't really affect pharaoh though, he's still getting food and water. The people who aren't are the poor people who have literally nothing to do with the Jews' enslavement. Then when the pharoah starts to consider letting them go, God "hardens his heart" so the sick game can continue. The way he finally gets through to the pharaoh is by killing his son (who, again, is innocent). But he can't just do that, he has to kill everyone else's sons too. Now, if God can affect free will, as he obviously does here, why didn't he just make the pharaoh release them?

The entire bible is also loaded with stuff like this (no commentary needed)

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Originally Posted by 2 Kings
2:23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
2:25 And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria.

As far as how the church operates, that's also incredibly screwed up. They can literally make up anything and claim it to be the word of God. It's usually stuff that is quite contrary to the message of Jesus too.

Also, see what I posted earlier in this post.


I guess, in a nutshell, that's how I feel about Christianity/Catholicism. As I've said before, I don't hold anything personal against people who believe it as long as they don't force it on others and don't use to justify hate.

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Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
I do believe in evolution. You can't disprove it, plain and simple. I just don't believe we evolved from nothing. I believe there was a baseline species created, then allowed to change as needed for survival. However, I explain a flu shot every year by way of pharmaceutical companies filling their wallets. NOTHING on this earth evolves on a 365 day schedule, but something that requires financial means to treat miraculously does...
the flu mutating isn't some sort of conspiracy. Do you really think the pharmaceutical industry is genetically engineering a virus so they can sell the vaccine to it? Because that's what it sounds like you're implying.


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Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
I do not, and probably never will, attend church. When you have organized religion you have a man/woman telling you what God wants. Religion gives God a bad name. Ask yourselves this: IF there were no organized churches/religions, and IF nobody ever told you that there was a God. Would you be more inclined to believe a possible existence had that thought come to mind? I believe the answer to that question to be yes. Almost everybody has a bad taste for religion due to man. It's not God that tells you you're going to hell when you do something you honestly believed to have been harmless. It's not God that stops you in the street and tells you to believe in him. It's man, in an attempt to get you to attend their church. Why? More people attending = more money collected. We see these 'representatives' of God acting in an unscrupulous manner and therefore, deny that God exists. If they represent God, what does that say about God? I'm absolutely not trying to say that your beliefs are merely the product of a bad experience with religion. That would discredit and invalidate your beliefs which I'm absolutely not trying to do. My point is only that religion is turning more people away from God than it's making believers out of. Organized religion is the splinter in the foot of progress... not God.
I completely agree. And to answer your question, yes I probably would be more open to believing in a creator without modern religion. I try to keep an open mind about this type of thing, but it really does make it hard. If I were presented with undeniable proof for the existence of a creator, I'd accept it, but the burden of proof would have to be ridiculous at this point in order to convince me.
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Old 09-27-2011, 03:53 PM   #39
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

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Good answer. I don't totally agree, but I definitely see your point here.



The thing is that we're not talking random members of the Catholic Church. My school only taught what came from the Vatican. So they definitely represent the real beliefs of the church. It doesn't necessarily mean it matches the beliefs of its members, but the church as an institution definitely does believe that.

I know this is probably a controversial thing to say, but in my opinion, teaching Catholicism to children constitutes child abuse. Not only does it create a deep sense of self-loathing, but it also encourages extreme discrimination against whatever groups the church decides it doesn't like.



Yeah, I remember that feeling. All I had to look forward to was being bullied over my (percieved) sexuality and having everyone refuse to associate with me.



I'll give you a condensed version, since I could probably write a small book on this subject.

<Warning, strong opinions>

Well, obviously I believe none of it is real. Maybe Jesus existed in some form, but definitely not as described in the bible. But as far as the beliefs, whenever I read the bible, God just seems to be pure evil. He created people for his own amusement, and so he can have someone worship him. He was also supposed to be all knowing, yet he created people so they would naturally want to rebel, which he then uses as justification for eternal torture. IMO, there is NOTHING anyone can do that warrants eternal torture. He also seems to be so quick to slaughter people, seemingly for fun. Yet, for some reason, Satan is supposed to be the embodiment of evil for rebelling against this tyrant. Yeah, no. In the entire bible, he kills maybe 10 people, 15 max. How many does God kill? Well, just based off the numbers that are specifically stated, it's 2,391,421 (thanks google).

Here are some specific examples of what I'm talking about:

First off, the book of Exodus. The Pharaoh won't release the Jewish people, so God decides that the best course of action is to punish the entire country. He creates famines, poisons the water supply, and kills off all the livestock. It doesn't really affect pharaoh though, he's still getting food and water. The people who aren't are the poor people who have literally nothing to do with the Jews' enslavement. Then when the pharoah starts to consider letting them go, God "hardens his heart" so the sick game can continue. The way he finally gets through to the pharaoh is by killing his son (who, again, is innocent). But he can't just do that, he has to kill everyone else's sons too. Now, if God can affect free will, as he obviously does here, why didn't he just make the pharaoh release them?

The entire bible is also loaded with stuff like this (no commentary needed)





the flu mutating isn't some sort of conspiracy. Do you really think the pharmaceutical industry is genetically engineering a virus so they can sell the vaccine to it?
I like that perspective, That's the sort of perspective I hold myself of most religious stories, it always seemed the force of good was more evil than the force of evil. I suppose, the whole concept of religion is born of fear I think, fear of god, fear of death and fear of hell. I don't want anything to do with a lifestyle that involves living in fear of something that is supposedly all knowing, or being on one's death bed worrying if you'll get eternal bliss or torture. I just want to die peacefully and then enjoy the nothingness, not that i'll have any consciousness to enjoy it.
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Old 09-27-2011, 04:04 PM   #40
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

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the flu mutating isn't some sort of conspiracy. Do you really think the pharmaceutical industry is genetically engineering a virus so they can sell the vaccine to it? Because that's what it sounds like you're implying.
That's exactly what I'm implying. It's a stretch... I know, but I fail to see a virus that mutates just outside of our built up immunity every 365 days and the pharmaceutical company coming to our rescue just in time, every single year. Do new variations of this virus have a hangout they know about and just wait outside for the new mutation to start processing it's vaccine? How do they get a hold of the 'next big cold' the same time every year?
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