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Old 09-27-2011, 02:08 PM   #21
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

I'm curious as well... if you don't believe in evolution, then how do you explain why you have to get a flu shot every year? How is animal domestication possible if every species remains unchanged? Why is it that more similar species tend to share more genetic patterns?


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Foothead, don't worry about offending me btw. I've got my beliefs and that's that, I'm not offended if someone thinks different. I like to look at everyones views though.
Okay, excellent. It seems like most theists get offended by the mere fact that other opinions exist. Anyway, I think I'll spare you a full explanation on my feelings about Christianity... last time I did, the person contacted me a few weeks later to thank me for converting them. Lol.
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:09 PM   #22
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

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Okay, I respect your beliefs, I do have a few questions for you, though; not every day you get a chance to ask them.

First and foremost, if God created the world in 6 days, and on the seventh he rested; and shortly after this humans inhabited the earth, where do the pre-historic organisms that we know once inhabited the earth before man fit in? I mean, huge fossils, skeletons and ice fossils prove pretty irrefutably that they did exist, but the bible makes no mention of them?
Who know's what a day is to God? 6 days could have been 6 billion years where-ever God's office is.

Can you imagine if the creation story was written today? "God spent the first 6 days reading OSHA standards and on the 7th day he tried to build everything. Picket lines were created and God's project took 4 months, but finally Adam was born."

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I'm curious as well... if you don't believe in evolution, then how do you explain why you have to get a flu shot every year? How is animal domestication possible if every species remains unchanged? Why is it that more similar species tend to have more similar genetic patterns?
I do believe in Evolution actually. I just believe God started everything and let it grow from there.
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:12 PM   #23
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

So you disregard the bible as a way of explaining why things are the way they are, but believe evolution was started by god? I suppose that's quite a moderate theory, but surely to disregard the bible's version of events is to disregard god?
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:20 PM   #24
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

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Who know's what a day is to God? 6 days could have been 6 billion years where-ever God's office is.
Well, technically days wouldn't have existed at the beginning of the creation story, as there was no sun or earth.

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Can you imagine if the creation story was written today? "God spent the first 6 days reading OSHA standards and on the 7th day he tried to build everything. Picket lines were created and God's project took 4 months, but finally Adam was born."
LOL!



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I do believe in Evolution actually. I just believe God started everything and let it grow from there.
The question was actually directed toward iPwn. But building on your answer, do you think God created, say, a random colony of cyanobacteria and just let it evolve from there with no interference whatsoever, or was he actively changing things/influencing which organisms get to survive?
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:21 PM   #25
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

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So you disregard the bible as a way of explaining why things are the way they are, but believe evolution was started by god? I suppose that's quite a moderate theory, but surely to disregard the bible's version of events is to disregard god?
No, I don't really think there is anything in the Old Testament that is fact. I think all of them are stories to teach a lesson. Back in the day they were written, all things were explained in the same style of writing. Jesus spoke in the same style. He wouldn't tell things as they were, he would tell a story. And that's how I see the Old Testament. It's just my own view on things. You could say I'm a very moderate Catholic. I believe the best way to serve God is by serving others. Which is why I've done mission trips, I've helped my friends through all sorts of things. I've helped people I don't like at all. I always help people whenever I can. And anyone can do that, sure, but as a Catholic, I believe God acts through everything and everyone...
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:26 PM   #26
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

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I believe God acts through everything and everyone...
Wouldn't that be an infringement on free will?

Also, why do you still associate with the catholic church if you reject most of their teachings? It'd be more accurate to just identify as Christian, and it doesn't support the catholic church.
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:36 PM   #27
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

Well, I USED to respect the catholic church as a moral guide, until all the child molesting and the pope defending the aforementioned child molestors. I would say it's a bit odd to associate yourself with something you don't entirely agree with. Would be like associating myself with the drugs enforcement association besides the fact i think prohibition is ineffective.
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:41 PM   #28
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

So please realize that I'm no religious authority, and with any 'religious questions', you're going to get different answers depending on who you ask. However, I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my abilities based on my personal beliefs.

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First and foremost, if God created the world in 6 days, and on the seventh he rested; and shortly after this humans inhabited the earth, where do the pre-historic organisms that we know once inhabited the earth before man fit in? I mean, huge fossils, skeletons and ice fossils prove pretty irrefutably that they did exist, but the bible makes no mention of them?
The account in Genesis regarding the creation of the Earth, from darkness to man, doesn't exactly allow for an explanation of dinosaurs, but doesn't necessarily bar their existence.

Here's the poor explanation I received growing up:
First, a "day" in Genesis is not what we would consider 24 hours. I've always been told that a day in "God's Time" is 1,000 years, but realistically, how would anyone know that? The hebrew word for day is Yom which can be translated into MANY different meanings. One of those just being our word "Time". Vague enough for you? So what that means is that instead of 6 24 hour days, there were simply 6 cycles in which God created, literally who knows how long.

On the fifth day is when God created the vegetation and creatures. "Then" he created man in his image. What amount of time existed between his original animal 'lineup' and when he created man? No idea.

Does this explain the existence of Dinosaurs in the Bible? Absolutely not.

Here's my explanation:
I'm not stupid enough to believe that the Bible is an exact account of how things came to be. The book of Genesis was not written by Adam, presumably the first man. It is commonly believed, not proven, that it was written by Moses, and boy is there a time gap between Adam and Moses. Stories, yes stories, were passed down from generation to generation on how the world came about, but those were campfire stories told over and over again and changed over and over again. What did we end up with? Something incomplete. Nobody can deny that dinosaurs existed. I personally believe that the calamity that befell them was in preparation of creating something new, mankind. Mankind was to have the ability of being on top of the foodchain, and with our current bodily makeup, the T-Rex would destroy our asses with the quickness. So God said let's try something new. Provable? Nope.

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another question i'd like to ask, is about how shoddy humans are. Things like the tailbone for a tail only a negligible amount of humans are born with, an appendix we can function usually better without, how we're not really top of the food chain, and so on.
Honestly, those are great questions, and I think that if anyone tried to explain them from a religious standpoint, they would be A. after a donation, B. after a donation, or C. Simply making crap up. I can't explain God's creations, or the variations between them. Genetic mutation does indeed exist, I just don't believe it's solely responsible for everything we see today.

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and finally, we know fairly irrefutably that 'magic' as an act is not strictly 'real'. I mean, no one really believes in Santa, and no one really believes that magicians are magical. People can't float and neither can objects, because of gravity and so on. So how can one assume that the entire universe is the result of a big beardy magic man (or woman? 0_0)
I actually disagree with you there. The mind is a very powerful and mysterious little object. If we can control our fingers, and no atoms ever touch, then what states that our body of influence stops at our skin? That's a stretch I know, but think about it. Jesus said that with enough faith you can move mountains. Faith in what? God? Believing in God will allow us to move a freaking mountain? No. Faith in our own body of influence.

Back to the question, how did a magic being create all things?
What if this being was made of pure energy?
Take a hologram and cut it in two, what happens when you shine light through each piece? You get the same image, just a little distorted now.
Nothing can create from nothing, therefore God had to have created of himself. Taking the energy he already possessed, or was of his makeup, and turning it into matter, another form of energy.

You asked questions that would choke even the pope up, if he actually felt like telling the truth that is. They were completely legitimate and valid questions that don't get explained anywhere in the Bible. I don't claim to be a scholar, or a representative of God. I simply believe that something better than we exists and had some influence on our existence. So, there's my halfa@@ attempt.

Edit: Wow, lots of replies while I was typing... so my post should be up there somewhere.
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:44 PM   #29
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

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Well, I USED to respect the catholic church as a moral guide, until all the child molesting and the pope defending the aforementioned child molestors. I would say it's a bit odd to associate yourself with something you don't entirely agree with. Would be like associating myself with the drugs enforcement association besides the fact i think prohibition is ineffective.

I personally have no respect whatsoever for the catholic church. I had to put up with their hateful bullshit for 11 years, until it drove me into suicidal depression. I have a friend who was in a similar position a while back, so it's not an isolated thing.
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:50 PM   #30
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Default Re: Question about the Bible

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Well, technically days wouldn't have existed at the beginning of the creation story, as there was no sun or earth.


The question was actually directed toward iPwn. But building on your answer, do you think God created, say, a random colony of cyanobacteria and just let it evolve from there, or was he actively changing things/influencing which organisms get to survive?
Exactly, we just called them days, and 7 is a famous Biblical number, so the choice was 7. But really it could have been 6 billion years.

I believe God has a plan for everyone and everything. He's all knowing. So I believe when he started the world, he knew what was going to happen, and just let it happen.

Chuck Palahniuk has a quote similar,
"I've met God across his long walnut desk with his diplomas hanging on the wall behind him, and God asks me, "Why?" Why did I cause so much pain? Didn't I realize that each of us is a sacred, unique snowflake of special unique specialness? Can't I see how we're all manifestations of love? I look at God behind his desk, taking notes on a pad, but God's got this all wrong. We are not special. We are not crap or trash, either. We just are. We just are, and what happens just happens. And God says, "No, that's not right." Yeah. Well. Whatever. You can't teach God anything.”

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Wouldn't that be an infringement on free will?
You could say. But so is culture. So is everything. None of us is original, we're the combined effort of everyone we know. The same way a compact disk isn't responsible for what's recorded on it, that's how we are. You're about as free to act as a programmed computer. You're about as one-of-a-kind as a dollar bill. And if you can find any way out of our culture, then that's a trap too. Just wanting to get out of the trap reinforces the trap.
^something else said by Chuck Palahniuk.

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I personally have no respect whatsoever for the catholic church. I had to put up with their hateful bullshit for 11 years, until it drove me into suicidal depression. I have a friend who was in a similar position a while back, so it's not an isolated thing.
It's not just the Catholic church, it's all of the churches, organizations, corporations, governments... There are radicals. And the radicals will attack you if you aren't on their side. They give a bad name to the Catholic church, but they don't represent the real beliefs of the church. My priest always told me, we are an open religion, and accepting of everything and everyone, and that's what I believe. And I know a lot of Catholics say differently, but I think they are wrong.
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