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Old 03-16-2008, 12:54 AM   #71
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Default Re: Presidential Elections!

toole13, i am very glad that you are willing to be open, as am I. But, here ar some sites regarding the partial birth abortion methods that i was talking about in the above posts;

www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/diagram.html

www.priestsforlife.org/partialbirth.html

www.abortioninfo.net/facts/pba.shtml

Here are some real photos. What better proof is there than real live photos. They are as follows;

www.biblia.com/abortion/photos.htm

www.euthanasia.com/apage9.html

www.abortiontv.com/Pics/AbortionPictures1.htm

Suicide and depression after an Abortion;

www.trosch.org/pas/pas.html

www.seghea.com/cheryl/index-2.html

www.pregnantpause.org/aborted/pasbig.htm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/lif...cle3559486.ece

Just think, women after having a miscarriage suffer depression, grief, sadness, and they feel trouble. Believe me,I'd know. I don't care what anyone says, women do bond with their unborn children. Killing them isn't natural. Hence, this is why we women feel grief after losing an unborn child. Humans were not originally heartless.
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Old 03-16-2008, 01:22 AM   #72
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Default Re: Presidential Elections!

Quote:
Originally Posted by toole13 View Post
When is THIS true?
Yeah, really, you can't just presume stuff like that. Even if there were numbers saying more women who aborted ended up committing suicide than women who didn't, it would make sense. Women who have to get abortions are usually having a tougher time in life than people who regularly have babies.

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Originally Posted by Waldorf PC View Post
Anyways, I'm a woman, therefore, it should not even be viewed as racist o discrimination of a kind since I'm talking about my own kind. It is just like a black person talking about their own race. Or, it is like the gays defending heir own stuff. It is not racist if you ar talking about your own group.
No no no no no no no. You can't just say something is "alright" because of that. You aren't just insulting yourself, but every other woman on earth (half the population).

Edit:
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Originally Posted by Waldorf PC View Post
Believe me,I'd know. I don't care what anyone says
If you said that in my debate class you'd probably be kicked out.
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Old 03-16-2008, 02:06 AM   #73
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As far as how the abortion is done......Does the method really matter? I don't care if it's partial birth abortion or a vacuum procedure. Any way that they go about it, abortion it still the process of murdering an innocent, defenseless baby. It is just not natural or right for anyone involved.

One of the above posts mentioned that it would be better for a young woman to have an abortion than to "ruin" her life by having an unwanted baby. I can't agree with that. I think that the pain a woman feels after killing her own child would be much much more severe than any momentary discomfort she would have from carrying the child to birth and then giving the baby up for adoption. Carrying a baby long enough for it to come into the world will not ruin any woman's life. I can definitely agree that the lifelong guilt and pain of having had an abortion can cause a woman to get depressed to the point of suicide. Statistics have proved it year after year. Abortion is one of the leading causes of death in America. It surpasses deaths caused by accidents, heart disease, stroke, crimes, HIV-AIDS, and all other deaths combined. Obama doesn't care about these statistics. Instead he has supported abortion more than any other American senator. He is all for killing defenseless American children who are too small to flee or fight back.

He doesn't value our American flag enough to salute it. He doesn't value our working citizens enough to protect their jobs from illegal aliens....and he doesn't value the lives of our unborn children. What exactly does this guy value - does he have any values at all?
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Old 03-16-2008, 10:21 AM   #74
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Default Re: Presidential Elections!

Waldorf PC: I'm not going to quote your whole post because of it's length, so just know that I am referring to your last post.

If, in fact, this procedure where an abortionist "jams scissors into the back of the baby's head" is real and commonly performed, then I will have to agree with you, this should be outlawed. I have a feeling that these abortions are done in one of these places: a) backdoor abortion clinics b) unexperienced abortion clinics. I doubt this is done in an official hospital with real doctors. I will express again, your sources tend to be a bit skewed, seeing as they are from the "National Right to Life" website and a pastor's personal website. You have given me much information, but I want to see some facts from a hospital's website, or from a medical journal. All I support is the choice of a woman to get an abortion that is in the first trimester and is done chemically. That is why the two sides are "pro choice" and "pro life".

Personally, I would not let my wife get an abortion. I would feel awful about it. What I am advocating for is the woman's choice to get an abortion. As with many things, a woman will have to deal with her choices. If she chooses to get an abortion, then she will have to deal with the aftereffects. Someone who chooses to get an abortion does so with full knowledge of what they are doing, and are probably strong enough to cope with the aftereffects. According to Dr. Noy Thrupkaew (weird name), a doctor at the University of California San Diego Medical Center: Studies that prove the existence of the syndrome are hopelessly flawed...they often rely on data from self-selected subjects who have reported depressive symptoms after an abortion. Neither the American Psychological Association nor the American Psychiatric Association recognize the syndrome. Even the anti-abortion former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop was forced to admit that the risk of serious emotional disturbances post-abortion was "miniscule" after President Ronald Reagan asked Koop to investigate the possible health after-effects of abortion; Koop withheld his findings until 1989.

If there is a group who supports "pro death" then I believe that you and I could successfully team up and put an end to them :-).
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Old 03-16-2008, 12:45 PM   #75
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any way you look at it your disrespecting women saying that they are not equal to men and thats wrong
so just please keep those comments to your self as we do have other women on this forum and we dont want them becoming upset as it is the constitutional law that says women and man are equal
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Old 03-16-2008, 03:12 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by mayorredbeard View Post
Mccain will also keep the troops in Iraq. I am not a registered democrat or republican, but I believe the troops must stay there for at least another 2 years. I think Mccain is the one most likely to do this. I was against the war in the beginning, but we as a country made a commitment to the people of Iraq. And if we don't stay we'll have another Afghanistan, where we go in and get rid of some bad people, (the Russians in Afghanistan were invading if you don't recall), and then just leave them hanging in the wind. And what happened in Afghanistan? An extremist group called the Taliban with anti-American ideals took over and harbored terrorist.
If I recall correctly (which I do), the taliban was trained and funded by the US goverment. You screwed them over, and they got upset.

And while I'm at it, this is being nice and friendly to Saddam during 1980-1984, after you guys got upset at Iran. They got a bunch of nice weapons. Oh yeah, during this time Iraq waged war on Iran too.

1991, you get upset at Iraq and invade them, and start arming and funding one of Iraq's enemy's (Israel)

Before 1979, the US supplied Iran with weapons and political support. 1979, things change and the US friendly leader disappears, you get very upset at Iran. Which brings us to the above paragraph, about funding and supplying the Iraqi Army. Iran hasn't been invaded yet however. You also sold Iran a bunch of shiny F14 Tomcat fighter / interceptors in 1974.

The timeline for all this is scary, the US switches sides very very quickly.
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Old 03-16-2008, 03:21 PM   #77
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Sadly I don't really like any of the candidates, I'll vote for McCain though because although I don't really like him....I don't like the Democrats alot more haha

IMO Senators (career Senators anyway) don't make good presidents, they have huge egos and don't have the same executive/management experience as Governors. They're just on committees and show up to vote every now and then, also IMO I think that Senators running for president need to resign, or at least step away from their office while they run for president. I think they should choose to either focus on being a senator or running for president. Not both at the same time.
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Old 03-16-2008, 11:28 PM   #78
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esa193, of course the baby will not remember pain if it is dead. All faculties stop working after life ends. What is to remember. And, why take their life. Please watch the Silent Scream. It is a great eye opener, and it will tell you the entire process. It is not bias, and it shows the baby suffering and everything. It is all factual. It is at www.silentscream.org/

Tool13, I'm sure I'd be kicked out of your debate class. I'm certain of it. However I'm not the only one here who said they didn't care. LOL! As for the pain of feeling pain from a miscarriage, I know what it was like.

Oh, with all do respect, esa193, do you have authority to enforce rules here? I'm only asking since you said that YOU would not have any of this stuff said here. I'm not a rule breaker or somone who challenges rules and authority. I have respect for authority figures to the full xtent so long as they will not abuse their power and mistreat me. And, those who've dealt with me in the beginning when I misunderstood things could voutch for that. However, I do not want to be told what to do by someone who has a chip on their shoulder, as nobody should ever abuse their power. I spoke what I believe, and again, i'm sorry it offended anyone. Please, let's not get too sinacle or make a big stink over something so small. Opposing beliefs could offend me: however, I respect that those are the others beliefs, and I just agree to disagree. I'm just happy they are strong enough to speak their side and actually stand up for their beliefs as so few do anymore. But, when it comes to an innocent life, I will stand my ground. THAT, is more important than this women debate we have right now.

Our constitutional right was also the freedom of speech, and I exercised that right. I appologized, and I let you know where I stood. I come from that group. Sometimes, people get overly offensive and want everything to be politically correct, and as for me, i'm going to say that I refuse to be that way. what's more, political correctness is incorrect, and that is another debate for another time. It is just that it seems that you can't even be your own person anymore without being labeled as the bad guy or as being some intollerant person. I break that trend.

It would be different if I were a man saying those things.

Are you a man yourself? If so, why wouldn't you support my side of things? Don't you want things to be the way they were? It is very hard to treat a woman like a queen and the princess as she so very well deserves if she is treating you like a four legged creature. I just see women do that all too often, and i hate it, and I AM going to say something about it with all due respect. It torments me when many of my guyfriends are crying of heartache because their women totally screwed them over. Who do people think they are treating another like this? I feel that you are glossing over some of what I said. What I had asked in my above post is, What happened to respect?

Many modern women feel they own their man. You can't tell me you don't see it. If you also really want to get technical, the way a woman was engineered as far as body makeup goes, she is weaker than a man. that is why the man's role is to take care of her and not disrespect her like perverts would. For centuries, women took care of domesic duties, and they even owned land, crops and the like. They were not totally powerless. they had a major part in decision making, and they had a say in the way things ran. It is just that the men took care of the hard parts. They went out, faught forthe family in battle, an labored so the family would hav what they needed. Women were major helps to the men in battle during the Civil War and other wars through history, and they were given credit for this. I wasn't speaking from a shovenistic point of view. There are both sides to it. LT ME EXPLAIN WHAT I meant by women verses man roles before i'm accused of being something i'm not.

The man is the head running the house. This is a very weighty responsibility as he has to provide for the family, protect his wife as she is precious, and protect the offspring. He is responsible for the outcomes of all of his decisions, as he decides what is best for the wellfare of his household. Should he not do this, should he abuse his wife and kids, then he is no better than in infidel. It makes him worthless aka deadbeat dads.

The women are responsible for domestic affairs. They ensure that the kids ar well cared for on the home front, and they support their husbands. They are there for them when the husband is ill, and he is there likewise. They take care of all the things at home. they are the ones who ensure that the children get into the house safely off the school bus so they are not latch key children coming home to an empty house being able to get into trouble as I had been as a child. Women have a huge role. They are responsible for molding the minds of our future. I'd feel honored to take part in helping our future.

The problem is today that nobody follows their rol. Men become sperm donors, and the women are seeking selfish pleasures feeling that everyone owes them everything. And, where do the kids stand?

I do have alot of respect for all the women who do not fall in that category and for all the men who do take care of their women and childr as you should.

I just feel that if people stuck to their roles, it would preserve the family structure. Things would run smoothly. The family is decaying more and more today. There is no denying it. Everyone has a place in the household, even the children. If everyone knows their place, things are going to run smoother. This does not only apply in the home but also in the office, too. The company would fail if people try to do duties that were not theirs to do. What more important place to follow this structure than in the family? This is all I was saying.

Back to our original debates unless you do feel you want to comment, wich I'll be more than happy to, again, hear your side of things.

Tool13, I will look around for unbiased sources this week, and i'll report back to you.


I hav no hard feelings toward anyone here. I just stand up for what i believe and have a very strong backbone. It is too bad you ar considered to be offensive just because you stand up for your beliefs.
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Old 03-16-2008, 11:39 PM   #79
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Default Re: Presidential Elections!

can you say Hijack
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Old 03-16-2008, 11:40 PM   #80
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Default Re: Presidential Elections!

Your gender roles thing is out of whack, I can't believe how sexist you are for being a female.

What if im living with another guy, who's the man of the house now?
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