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Old 03-17-2008, 09:48 PM   #101
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Default Re: Presidential Elections!

Quote:
Originally Posted by troy View Post
But what has he lead that makes him a leader? He was in the Illinois state senate, and has been in the US senate for three years but has done very little. He has voted "present" on most of the votes he was there for. He also has missed tons and tons of senate votes because he has been campaigning for the presidency for most of his term.
See, this just isn't true.
From 2005-2007

Senator Obama has sponsored or co-sponsored 570 bills in the 109th and 110th Congress.

Senator Obama has sponsored or co-sponsored 15 bills that have become LAW since he joined the Senate in 2005.

Senator Obama has also introduced amendments to 50 bills, of which 16 were adopted by the Senate.

(www.thomas.gov)

Back stuff up when you say it, people.
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:55 PM   #102
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Default Re: Presidential Elections!

I picked Obama, but if I were to vote in this (landslide) election, and it was Obama vs McCain, I'd write in for Bob Sedlak and Ed Homock (inside joke)
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:16 PM   #103
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Default Re: Presidential Elections!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illmatic View Post
See, this just isn't true.
From 2005-2007

Senator Obama has sponsored or co-sponsored 570 bills in the 109th and 110th Congress.

Senator Obama has sponsored or co-sponsored 15 bills that have become LAW since he joined the Senate in 2005.

Senator Obama has also introduced amendments to 50 bills, of which 16 were adopted by the Senate.

(www.thomas.gov)

Back stuff up when you say it, people.
Here are some voting stats I've found(http://www.govtrack.us/congress/pers...oles&id=400629):

Quote:
Statistics: Barack Obama has sponsored 129 bills since Jan 4, 2005, of which 120 haven't made it out of committee (Poor) and 1 were successfully enacted (Average, relative to peers). Obama has co-sponsored 559 bills during the same time period (Average, relative to peers).
Quote:
Statistic: Barack Obama missed 208 of 1171 votes (18%) since Jan 6, 2005 (Exceedingly Poor relative to peers).
Now I'll be fair and put up McCain's stats, that way people can see both sides

Quote:
Statistics: John McCain has sponsored 403 bills since Jan 21, 1997, of which 263 haven't made it out of committee (Extremely Poor) and 12 were successfully enacted (Very Good, relative to peers). McCain has co-sponsored 879 bills during the same time period (Average, relative to peers).
Quote:
Statistic: John McCain missed 632 of 3793 votes (17%) since Jan 22, 1997 (Extremely Poor relative to peers).
I'll be fair on this and say that based on those stats, both of their records are nothing to brag about and are not very good. Then again I don't think any of the senators running or who have ran for president this election had spotless records. I do like the fact that Obama is a Washington outsider for the most part, but I don't like the fact that McCain has been in Washington so long and we all know that he has made a lot of people angry. I like Obama, I wouldn't vote for him because of his stances on the issues but also the lack of inexperience is kinda scary to me. I hope he picks a good VP if he gets the nomination otherwise I think he'll hurt his chances of winning. As for McCain, he's got a lot of explaining to do on his senate record. A lot of republicans are angry over McCain-Kennedy, McCain-Lieberman, McCain-Feingold, the gang of 14 and other things he did which will hurt him.
What I would like to know is why is Obama running for president? He's young and doesn't have a whole lot of experience, why does he want to run for president now? I think he could have run for governor of Illionois because he obviously has a lot of likability and electibility.
I'll say it again, I want this campaign clean and that's why if I HAVE to support a democrat it would be Obama. I've always hated mudslinging elections and all the bickering that comes with presidential elections. Obama is opposite to my views on most issues but if I were to support a democrat it would be him because I think he's a good guy and means well. One thing that someone said earlier was that Obama would destroy the country, which I don't think is quite true. I think he wants to do what he thinks is best for the country, the only problem is that we all have a different view of what we think is the best for the country.

Lastly, thank you Illmatic for respectfully debating and not jumping on me.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:51 PM   #104
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Default Re: Presidential Elections!

McCain has co-sponsored 879 bills since Jan 21, 1997.
Obama has co-sponsored 559 bills since Jan 4, 2005.

Doing the math, Obama co-sponsors about 1 bill every two days. McCain sponsors one every 5 days.

I'm just trying to say that through Obama's senate records it is clear that he has been attempting to make "change." Of course, he isn't president yet, so what he will actually do isn't predictable.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:55 PM   #105
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Default Re: Presidential Elections!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Illmatic View Post
McCain has co-sponsored 879 bills since Jan 21, 1997.
Obama has co-sponsored 559 bills since Jan 4, 2005.

Doing the math, Obama co-sponsors about 1 bill every two days. McCain sponsors one every 5 days.

I'm just trying to say that through Obama's senate records it is clear that he has been attempting to make "change." Of course, he isn't president yet, so what he will actually do isn't predictable.
That is a good point. Obama has been a huge proponent for change which is one of the major reasons I respect him so much. Of course McCain ran for president twice so that could be why he didn't sponsor as many bills as he could have, not to mention he is a bit on the lazy side. I think that if our country is headed in the direction of change, Obama is the guy who says what he means and means what he says. McCain isn't really the guy to bring about change since he has been in Washington so long.
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:11 PM   #106
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Default Re: Presidential Elections!

Sorry to post this..it's referring back to posts a few pages back..but there are only abortions when babies are technically not babies, they are in the stage where they're a just a bunch of cells and have not developed a brain or anything yet. So technically it's not murder, it's just stopping the process of the fetus to develop all the required cells to fully function as a human being.
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Old 03-17-2008, 11:20 PM   #107
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Default Re: Presidential Elections!

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Originally Posted by troy View Post
But what has he lead that makes him a leader? He was in the Illinois state senate, and has been in the US senate for three years but has done very little. He has voted "present" on most of the votes he was there for. He also has missed tons and tons of senate votes because he has been campaigning for the presidency for most of his term. If he can't do what his constituents elected him to do, how can he run a country where WE elect him to run the nation. Also knowing what someone wants and promising them everything they want to hear is different than actually doing something. He's a good talker, but I haven't seen much doing on his part. He seems to promote himself, get elected into an office, and then promote himself for something else. I like him and think he's a decent man but I don't think I'd vote for him because his strong lack of experience, and the fact that his positions and my positions are pretty different. I'm not a strong liberal at all and am more conservative, he was named the most liberal member of the senate in 2007, more so than Ted Kennedy or John Kerry. There's nothing wrong with being liberal, but going too far on either end of the spectrum isn't good. That goes for being too far conservative as well.
All these campaigns are full of false promises. Obama has some good ideas but his whole campaign is the word "change" which can mean many things good or bad. He's running on promises that will go unfulfilled just like they did with every other president. There are factors that decide the outcomes of these promises. What if Obama is elected and has to work with a Republican congress? there goes his universal healthcare, energy independence and ending the war. Same goes for a divided congress like we've got now, nothing will get done and it will reflect badly on his part. Honestly, I'm more focused on the members of congress that are up for election since they're the ones who make the laws and write bills.

Keep in mind I am NOT bashing Obama and I do like and respect him. I think it's great that we've got a black man as the front runner for the presidency, and the fact that he's young is cool. This is history being made. I just don't feel he is ready to lead the nation given its current state of being. I do like the fact he has kept his campaign clean and has not used the tactics that Clinton has used. McCain and Obama have run a clean campaign against one another and that's one thing I admire from both of those candidates. Change in small doses is a good thing, but too much of a good thing isn't really a good thing.

One last thing, I didn't read anything sexist or racist in Waldorf PC's posts. It's interesting to read the female perspective on issues such as the role of women, and abortion. While I might not agree with a few things said, it's nice to see a female participating in a debate on a forum that is largely dominated by males. What I saw in her posts was meaning what you say and saying what you mean. Speaking your mind is a good thing, it's freedom of speech and thankfully we are able to engage in these types of debates here and keep them clean. I've been here for about a year and a half and I've seen some pretty ugly debates, this one is probably the most productive and meaningful debates I've seen in my time here.

Ok that's my 2 cents!



Thank you!

Thank you!

Thank you!

I'm glad you, too, can see where I'm coming from. Yeah, I'm all about keeping things civil. I have my views, but I'm not bashing others for having theirs. I don't mind defending my views, and I have no problem speaking my mind as you can see.

ESA193, this whole thing about the women came about BECAUSE we were talking about the candidates. I told, in depth detail, why I would and would not support certain ones. These debates sprang from this. And, I enjoyed them. I walked away feeling fine, as I knew I was civil.

It is not my fault you dislike my take on things. That is life. Not everyone is going to think like you.

My two sense will continue so long as the mods do not have a problem with me doing this. I'm pretty reasonable, and I'll abide by any rules set forth. The mods who've dealt with me when I had some misunderstandings about some of the rules when I was a newbie could voutch for that. What I had done was not against the rules. I merely expressed my thoughts. Like it or not, I'll continue to.

So what, I don't support the way women today do things. Now, are you going to hang me because I'm not modern? I live by what I say. In my household, the man is the head, and I'm satisfied with that. To be quite frank, I don't ever want that responsibility. I'm fine where I am.

I own my own business, I'm a leader, and just because I know my place doesn't mean I'm not significant because I'm a woman. I've made differences in the lives of many and will continue to. I've striven many leaps and bounds, and I'm quite successful. I've spoke before the senat and the house of representatives on behalf of the rights of blind and visually impaired persons. I've helped many in impovrished and bad situations. I've cared for many who suffer from mental and physical handicaps. I've been a performing artist for twenty years, and I've just put out my own CD. I've done many more things that it would be too much to list here. What do you know, I did this and I'm a woman!

You are butchering everything I say. I said that women have their place. What's wrong with that? It is not negative at all. So what, you disagree. That is totally fine with me. Life goes on.

I will not be told to shut up or have someone abuse their power over me. No, I'm not a cocky person by any means. But, I will exercise my rights. And, you are the only one here who has a problem with me and my views on things. Everyone else has semed to be quite mature about it having a healthy debate.

I've been quite civil to you. I don't know what else to do. If you want me to change my stance on things, it's not happening. And, I will continue to, regardless if you like it or not, speak my stand on issues. Everyone else is doing it, so can I.
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