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Old 07-09-2005, 12:07 AM   #11
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Default Re: Political: G8 summit (world poverty / climatic change)

You didn't give any ideas on how to bypass these governments right.. they are in charge of the country budget... and if appropriated correctly, they can work on infrastructure.
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Old 07-09-2005, 12:09 AM   #12
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Default Re: Political: G8 summit (world poverty / climatic change)

well i did not cause the problem, if i can remember correctly it was the Imperial Powers with there christian ways that did africa in.
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Old 07-09-2005, 12:11 AM   #13
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Default Re: Political: G8 summit (world poverty / climatic change)

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well i did not cause the problem, if i can remember correctly it was the Imperial Powers with there christian ways that did africa in.
I never said you caused the problems. And it was Europe, not the United States. It happens to be the US is footing most of the bill for any assistance these days.
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Old 07-09-2005, 12:15 AM   #14
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Default Re: Political: G8 summit (world poverty / climatic change)

Yeah, one fourth and thats a good amount but look how much help its been doing. The Corrupt Governments are syfining the money, we need to fingure out how to stop this
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Old 07-09-2005, 12:21 AM   #15
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Default Re: Political: G8 summit (world poverty / climatic change)

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well i did not cause the problem, if i can remember correctly it was the Imperial Powers with there christian ways that did africa in.
When a lot of the African nations got their independence, they reverted straight back to their tribal differences. Where the countries for the most part were self sustaning under white rule. This went staight down the gurgler after independence. Zimbabwe is a prime example of this with Robert G. Mugabe's despotic rule and a bankrupt country.

Edit: Typo
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Old 07-09-2005, 05:17 AM   #16
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Default Re: Political: G8 summit (world poverty / climatic change)

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Originally Posted by mark thorpe
global warming... well there have always been fluctuations in the global climate, ice ages for example, the world warming by a couple of degrees isnt a big deal imo, yes all the pollution and that rubbish is bad, but not because of global warming, the climate is going to fluctuate anyway, its only natural that it will do that...
The world warming by a couple degrees is in fact going to have a huge impact, it is possibly the worst situation. Think of it, if it did, then all the ice continents would melt and cause the oceans to rise, more of an impact would be on the sea currents. If there is a huge desalination of the worlds oceans, the warm water from teh equator would no longer be flowing down to the cooler areas near the northern and southern hemisphere, cause ice age like situations, although many people would be saved because of our already developed technology, such as warming, there would still be a devastatingly large death toll, rising probably up to the millions.

Well, we can possibly save Africe. Take for example, the Live8 concert that was performed all around the world, as we people take our lives for granted still, we begin to realise that the less developed countries dont have all t he luxuries we have, not even the basic standards of living in our world. Maybe if we all unite we can finally stop poverty.
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Old 07-09-2005, 05:32 AM   #17
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Default Re: Political: G8 summit (world poverty / climatic change)

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The world warming by a couple degrees is in fact going to have a huge impact, it is possibly the worst situation. Think of it, if it did, then all the ice continents would melt and cause the oceans to rise, more of an impact would be on the sea currents. If there is a huge desalination of the worlds oceans, the warm water from teh equator would no longer be flowing down to the cooler areas near the northern and southern hemisphere, cause ice age like situations, although many people would be saved because of our already developed technology, such as warming, there would still be a devastatingly large death toll, rising probably up to the millions.
This is a total overstatement and a total exaggeration of what is really happening. What is happening now is just a mild warming situation.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...L&type=science

Antarctica Ice is actually growing steadily.

If you guys are watching movies like the "Day after tomorrow", be forewarned on the hollywood effect. I'm sure the liberal agenda had something to do with the development of that movie.

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Well, we can possibly save Africe. Take for example, the Live8 concert that was performed all around the world, as we people take our lives for granted still, we begin to realise that the less developed countries dont have all t he luxuries we have, not even the basic standards of living in our world. Maybe if we all unite we can finally stop poverty.
No we can't save it. I hate to knock down anybody's hope. Live8? who cares? Are they helping african countries build up business infrastructure? As far as I'm concerned nothing is being done to tackle infrastructure problems. If we all unite? You mean throw money at a situation, and this billions ends up stolen? What are we supposed to do? Those countries need to be built from the ground up.. starting from education systems, to economic infrastructure. Secondly, the AIDs crisis has no end. There is no cure for AIDs. Thirdly, there is drought that is occurring. We can do little about that. Genetically modified seeds have some promise, but that's it.
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Old 07-09-2005, 05:38 AM   #18
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Default Re: Political: G8 summit (world poverty / climatic change)

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Originally Posted by Giancarlo
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...L&type=science

Antarctica Ice is actually growing steadily.
A interesting article that, just goes to show what nature can do...
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Old 07-09-2005, 06:13 AM   #19
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Default Re: Political: G8 summit (world poverty / climatic change)

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partially offsetting rising seas due to the melt waters of global warming
That was a quote from "http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/05/20/MNGS9CS5141.DTL&type=science" as quoted by Giancarlo. This is temporary, if it goes to a certain extent, the rising snowfall may not be enough to put an end to the melting ice caps, although technology may have an effect on helping to repair it to a certain extent, it still could have a davastating effect as the quote below shows. Rises in sea levels means desalination, which can also have a big impact on whether earth is closer to a ice age or not.

Quote:
Rising sea level, which could swamp many coastal and island communities, is considered one of the most serious potential consequences of global warming, according to the most recent assessment by the U.N. Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
----

Quote:
Any additional annual snowfall in East Antarctica, therefore, is almost certainly due to warmer temperatures, four experts on Antarctica said. "As the atmosphere warms, it should hold more moisture," said climatologist Joseph R. McConnell at the Desert Research Institute in Reno, who helped conduct the study. "In East Antarctica, that means there should be more snowfall."
This may have helped antarctica but we're talking about global change. Yes it may help to recover some of the ice melted off in the past but would it have an effect on the rest of the world ? definately. If there is more annual rainfall or temperature changes in a short space of time, than it would mean that the organisms living in a certain area don't have time to adapt to it, which could kill some animals of a species, although this is not likely to happen soon, it may in the future, and with us already plucking some species to be sent to extinction, it may kill the few animals that we may have left.

----

Quote:
No we can't save it. I hate to knock down anybody's hope. Live8? who cares? Are they helping african countries build up business infrastructure? As far as I'm concerned nothing is being done to tackle infrastructure problems. If we all unite? You mean throw money at a situation, and this billions ends up stolen? What are we supposed to do? Those countries need to be built from the ground up.. starting from education systems, to economic infrastructure. Secondly, the AIDs crisis has no end. There is no cure for AIDs. Thirdly, there is drought that is occurring. We can do little about that. Genetically modified seeds have some promise, but that's it.
Although i agree with Giancarlo that we could never create a utopia-like world for Africa, we help to ease the suffering. What was the purpose of the Live8 concert? to raise awareness to the critical matter. Why did the millions turn out, some in horrible conditions jsut to support the concert? to raise awareness to the critical matter. There are people willing to help those in need out. If we knew that our money would be stolen by the corrupt governments why would we give it to them? Thats what worldvision is for, its a NPO that gives it directly to the people, do they give it to the government? no or else africa wouldn't be like this. They purchase food aids and medical equipment to save the people not the government. As for infrastructure, that is something that can onnly be achieved in the long term, that was not the purpose of the Live8 concert as i shall say again. Yet why bother with infrastructure at the moment when lives are at stake, which by all emans are much more important.

The AIDS epidemic. Think logically, why would we need a cure if we could drastically reduce the chance of catching it anyways ? Why do you think more people in Africa are dying compared to America or Australia? because we have protection against it and they don't. So a cure is the last hope, not just the only option as you assume Giancarlo.

Droughts ... we in Australia are currently having a drought, but you don't see people dying because of it, yes it may prove a financial loss to farmers and produce growersbut not such a high toll as death. It may take a decade or two for africa to come to such standards but in the end it may.

There is always light at the end of the tunnel. These were the reasons why the G8 meeting was set up in the first place, to set goals. And, like we all know, these goals can be accomplished with hard work and dedication. We should all know that, why should we only apply it to ourselves and not think of others? why can't we tell that to the african people dying?
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Old 07-09-2005, 06:25 AM   #20
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Default Re: Political: G8 summit (world poverty / climatic change)

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Originally Posted by dyserq
That was a quote from "http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/05/20/MNGS9CS5141.DTL&type=science" as quoted by Giancarlo. This is temporary, if it goes to a certain extent, the rising snowfall may not be enough to put an end to the melting ice caps, although technology may have an effect on helping to repair it to a certain extent, it still could have a davastating effect as the quote below shows. Rises in sea levels means desalination, which can also have a big impact on whether earth is closer to a ice age or not.
This warming is mild at best. Also, anything going on is temporary (it isn't permanent, as the environment fluctuates). This purely shows that Antarctica has consistently been growing overall.

Quote:
definately. If there is more annual rainfall or temperature changes in a short space of time, than it would mean that the organisms living in a certain area don't have time to adapt to it, which could kill some animals of a species, although this is not likely to happen soon, it may in the future, and with us already plucking some species to be sent to extinction, it may kill the few animals that we may have left.
What is important is that we are not the primary or secondary cause of global warming. It wasn't us. It was natural fluctation. Additionally, the animal kindgom has been able to adapt pretty easily in the past when global warming/cooling was occurring at faster rates. It may kill the few animals we may have left? What kind of rhetoric is that?

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Although i agree with Giancarlo that we could never create a utopia-like world for Africa, we help to ease the suffering. What was the purpose of the Live8 concert? to raise awareness to the critical matter. Why did the millions turn out, some in horrible conditions jsut to support the concert? to raise awareness to the critical matter. There are people willing to help those in need out. If we knew that our money would be stolen by the corrupt governments why would we give it to them? Thats what worldvision is for, its a NPO that gives it directly to the people, do they give it to the government? no or else africa wouldn't be like this. They purchase food aids and medical equipment to save the people not the government. As for infrastructure, that is something that can onnly be achieved in the long term, that was not the purpose of the Live8 concert as i shall say again. Yet why bother with infrastructure at the moment when lives are at stake, which by all emans are much more important.
Naive at best. I'm sorry. But if you really look at it this way, any euphoria for that concert will be gone in a few weeks (or days even). raise awareness? You still didn't answer to any of my critiques. What can we do? there has to be infrastructure built in those countries for them to have any future. Just throwing money at the situation doesn't help. And the Live8 concert is not really relevant to infrastructure construction. Giving money directly to the people is nice and all, but it still isn't building up infrastructure. Food aid is nice and so is medical equipment.. and necessary to help them. But this isn't a long term solution to economic depression. Why bother with infrastructure at the moment? It is that kind of attitude that prevents anything productive in being done. These people need to have education and jobs to live productive lives.

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The AIDS epidemic. Think logically, why would we need a cure if we could drastically reduce the chance of catching it anyways ? Why do you think more people in Africa are dying compared to America or Australia? because we have protection against it and they don't. So a cure is the last hope, not just the only option as you assume Giancarlo.
Awful statement at best. You think logically about what you are saying. How can we drastically reduce the chance of catching it when 25% of the population in many countries are already effected by it and already have it? I'm sorry but it is much too late. A cure is a needed hope. Also don't ever put words in my mouth.

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Droughts ... we in Australia are currently having a drought, but you don't see people dying because of it, yes it may prove a financial loss to farmers and produce growersbut not such a high toll as death. It may take a decade or two for africa to come to such standards but in the end it may.
You have:

1) economic infrastructure

2) economic base

3) affluency

You can afford to import foods that you cannot grow. You can afford to do that and more. You can afford to use genetically modified seeds that use less water. A decade or two? Try 200 years. It won't happen any time soon.

I'm just a realist.

Quote:
There is always light at the end of the tunnel. These were the reasons why the G8 meeting was set up in the first place, to set goals. And, like we all know, these goals can be accomplished with hard work and dedication. We should all know that, why should we only apply it to ourselves and not think of others? why can't we tell that to the african people dying?
Light at the end of the tunnel.. wishful thinking at best. Very naive I think of the reality. You'll have to deal with dozens of civil conflicts throughout Africa first. Then deal with the AIDS crisis. Then help these countries build up infrastructure. These goals can be accomplished with hard work and dedication? What can we do?

I'm just a realist and a pessimist. I don't see any goals being met in Africa, now or any time in the future.

Anyways, I'm off and will be going to bed. Feel free to argue my points more, but I feel I have the right to stick to my views without someone putting words in my throat and trying to speak for me.
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