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Old 03-02-2005, 05:54 AM   #31
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Default Re: phobias

Well he did devote an entire segment of his show defending gay rights, Giancarlo. GO MICHAEL MOORE, YIPPEE :P
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Old 03-02-2005, 05:56 AM   #32
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Default Re: phobias

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Originally Posted by NOFX
Well he did devote an entire segment of his show defending gay rights, Giancarlo. GO MICHAEL MOORE, YIPPEE :P
He's just trying to screw us for his own political agenda. I'm sorry. I'm not going to support him.. even if he does support gay rights, I'm not a single issue person. Also did you know Fred Phelps is a democrat? Life long democrat. There are photos of him posing with Al Gore. Oh... What about the rest of Moore's views? Which are repulsive.
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Old 03-02-2005, 06:00 AM   #33
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Give us some things that repulse you about Michael Moore.
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Old 03-02-2005, 06:01 AM   #34
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He tells us what we should or should not eat... in one of his books... let me just say he's not the authority. He bashes American companies, that provide jobs to many millions. He bashes American troops.. calling them baby killers.. when they have done no such things. He bashes our 2nd amendment rights to defend ourselves with guns, yet he own several guns himself and is a member of the NRA (hypocrite).
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Old 03-02-2005, 06:10 AM   #35
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He bashes American companies, that provide jobs to many millions
Oh yeh like in Bowling for Columbine those big companies which exploit, poverty stricken families.

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He bashes American troops.. calling them baby killers
Give me some evidence that he said this.
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Old 03-02-2005, 06:11 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by NOFX
Oh yeh like in Bowling for Columbine those big companies which exploit, poverty stricken families.
Typical of brainwashing... state something that isn't true. Most of those big companies provide high paying jobs... take Boeing or General Electric. Maybe you should think before you speak!

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Give me some evidence that he said this.
He has done it in recent political rallies.
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Old 03-02-2005, 06:16 AM   #37
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Are those companies you are talking about, the same ones that exploit people below the poverty line by driving them out on a bus to the middle of no where at 5.30 in the morning paying them minimum wage, which is not nearly enough to support themselves let alone a family. Give me some proof that he called them baby killers and some evidence that the US army hasnt actually killed anybabies in all there off target missile attacks ie the one that hit the market. I think what Michael Moore was trying to put across in bowling for colombine is how ridiculously easy it is for americans to secure firearms.
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Old 03-02-2005, 06:18 AM   #38
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Exploit this, exploit that.. that is all you can speak about? These companies are paying people liveable wages, and giving them jobs they would otherwise not have. If you are talking about Boeing and General Electric, the bulk of jobs provided are well paying. You need to start to grow up and accept the fact Michael Moore is an asshole, who is most of the time wrong. That one that hit the market? Turned out that was an Iraqi Rocket. Nice try really. Michael Moore was an ass.
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Old 03-02-2005, 06:20 AM   #39
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I don't thikn that your vague recollection is proof enough that he has said it.

Can I assume you've watched bowling for columbine? Micheal Moore isn't the only person to speak out against the right to work programs which basically exploit people.

His speaking out against guns is hypocracy since he is an NRA member, but do you really think that everybody should own a gun...

You have a statistically higher percentage chance of being shot if you do own a gun...

I agree that micheal Moore probably cares more about his pay cheques than he does the causes the supposably supports, but you should congratulate him for the causes he highlights even if his motives arn't all that valid...

does anyone else watch little britain, and can anyone draw parallels between Daviff and Gian?
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Old 03-02-2005, 06:23 AM   #40
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Yes I watched Bowling For Columbine. Want some evidence on the faults of the movie? Sure.. just ask.

http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

Just a clip of this intensive study into Lying For Columbine, it should be called:

"1. Willie Horton. The first edition of the webpage had a section on falsification of the election ad regarding Willie Horton (the convict, not the baseball star). This was one of the earliest criticisms of Bowling--Ben Fritz caught it back in November, 2002.

To illustrate politicians' (and especially Republican politicians') willingness to play the "race card," Bowling shows what purports to be a television ad run by George Bush, Sr., in his race against Governor Dukakis. For those who weren't around back then -- Massachusetts had a "prison furlough" program where prisoners could be given short releases from the clink. Unfortunately, some of them never came back. Dukakis vetoed legislation which would have forbidden furlough to persons with "life without parole" sentences for murder, and authorities thereafter furloughed a number of murderers. Horton, in prison for a brutal stabbing murder, got a furlough, never returned, and then attacked a couple, assaulting both and raping the woman. His opponents in the presidential race took advantage of the veto.

The ad as shown by Moore begins with a "revolving door" of justice, progresses to a picture of Willie Horton (who is black), and ends with dramatic subtitle: "Willie Horton released. Then kills again."

Fact: Bowling splices together two different election ads, one run by the Bush campaign (featuring a revolving door, and not even mentioning Horton) and another run by an independent expenditure campaign (naming Horton, and showing footage from which it can be seen that he is black). At the end, the ad ala' Moore has the customary note that it was paid for by the Bush-Quayle campaign. Moore intones "whether you're a psychotic killer or running for president of the United States, the one thing you can always count on is white America's fear of the black man." There is nothing to reveal that most of the ad just seen (and all of it that was relevant to Moore's claim) was not the Bush-Quayle ad, which didn't even name Horton.

Fact: Apparently unsatisfied with splicing the ads, Bowling's editors added a subtitle "Willie Horton released. Then kills again."

Fact: Ben Fitz also noted that Bowling's editors didn't bother to research the events before doctoring the ads. Horton's second arrest was not for murder. (The second set of charges were aggravated assault and rape).


I originally deleted this from the main webpage, because in the VHS version of Bowling Moore had the decency to remove the misleading footage. But as Brendan Nyhan recently wrote in Spinsanity, he put it back in in the DVD version! He did make one minor change, switching his edited-in caption to "Willie Horton released. Then rapes a woman." Obviously Moore had been informed of the Spinsanity criticism. He responded by correcting his own typo, not by removing the edited in caption, nor by revealing that the ad being shown was not in fact a Bush-Quayle ad.

2. NRA and the Reaction To Tragedy. A major theme in Bowling is that NRA is callous toward slayings. In order to make this theme fit the facts, however, Bowling repeatedly distorts the evidence.

A. Columbine Shooting/Denver NRA Meeting. Bowling portrays this with the following sequence:

Weeping children outside Columbine;

Cut to Charlton Heston holding a musket and proclaiming "I have only five words for you: 'from my cold, dead, hands'";

Cut to billboard advertising the meeting, while Moore intones "Just ten days after the Columbine killings, despite the pleas of a community in mourning, Charlton Heston came to Denver and held a large pro-gun rally for the National Rifle Association;"

Cut to Heston (supposedly) continuing speech... "I have a message from the Mayor, Mr. Wellington Webb, the Mayor of Denver. He sent me this; it says 'don't come here. We don't want you here.' I say to the Mayor this is our country, as Americans we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land. Don't come here? We're already here!"

The portrayal is one of an arrogant protest in response to the deaths -- or, as one reviewer put it, "it seemed that Charlton Heston and others rushed to Littleton to hold rallies and demonstrations directly after the tragedy." The portrayal is in fact false.


Fact: The Denver event was not a demonstration relating to Columbine, but an annual meeting (see links below), whose place and date had been fixed years in advance.


Fact: At Denver, the NRA cancelled all events (normally several days of committee meetings, sporting events, dinners, and rallies) save the annual members' voting meeting -- that could not be cancelled because the state law governing nonprofits required that it be held. [No way to change location, since under NY law you have to give 10 days' advance notice of that to the members, there were upwards of 4,000,000 members -- and Columbine happened 11 days before the scheduled meeting.] As a newspaper reported:

In a letter to NRA members Wednesday, President Charlton Heston and the group's executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, said all seminars, workshops, luncheons, exhibits by gun makers and other vendors, and festivities are canceled.

All that's left is a members' reception with Rep. J.C. Watts, R-Okla., and the annual meeting, set for 10 a.m. May 1 in the Colorado Convention Center.

Under its bylaws and New York state law, the NRA must hold an annual meeting.

The NRA convention April 30-May 2 was expected to draw 22,000 members and give the city a $17.9 million economic boost.

"But the tragedy in Littleton last Tuesday calls upon us to take steps, along with dozens of other planned public events, to modify our schedule to show our profound sympathy and respect for the families and communities in the Denver area in their time of great loss," Heston and LaPierre wrote.


Fact: Heston's "cold dead hands" speech, which leads off Moore's depiction of the Denver meeting, was not given at Denver after Columbine. It was given a year later in Charlotte, North Carolina, and was his gesture of gratitude upon his being given a handmade musket, at that annual meeting.

Fact: When Bowling continues on to the speech which Heston did give in Denver, it carefully edits it to change its theme.

Moore's fabrication here cannot be described by any polite term. It is a lie, a fraud, and a few other things. Carrying it out required a LOT of editing to mislead the viewer, as I will show below. I transcribed Heston's speech as Moore has it, and compared it to a news agency's transcript, color coding the passages. CLICK HERE for the comparison, with links to the original transcript.

Moore has actually taken audio of seven sentences, from five different parts of the speech, and a section given in a different speech entirely, and spliced them together. Each edit is cleverly covered by inserting a still or video footage for a few seconds.

First, right after the weeping victims, Moore puts on Heston's "I have only five words for you . . . cold dead hands" statement, making it seem directed at them. As noted above, it's actually a thank-you speech given a year later in North Carolina.

Moore then has an interlude -- a visual of a billboard and his narration. This is vital. He can't go directly to Heston's real Denver speech. If he did that, you might ask why Heston in mid-speech changed from a purple tie and lavender shirt to a white shirt and red tie, and the background draperies went from maroon to blue. Moore has to separate the two segments."

I won't congratulate that lying shit on anything.
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