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Old 12-06-2006, 10:42 PM   #41
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Default Re: parents...

As far as I'm concerned it's really difficult or impossible for anyone to really make a valid argument about the whole sexual orientation thing we're speaking of. All I know is that I'm not gay so I can't go around stating that the people who are gay have chosen to be that way because I have no experience of my own. The only opinion I have no choice but to trust is gay people themselves and if they say they have been that way since birth then it might as well be true. If that wasn't true then i would definitely say that it has to do with reaching sexual puberty and some sort of chemical reactions at that time that react differently in those who are homosexual. I say that because if you think about it, how many pre-pubescent children are considered gay? I don't know of any and in fact, for those people I grew up with who I thought might turn out to be gay actually have become very hetero.
Anyways, the point I am trying to make is that I don't believe being gay is a choice at all and so the only way homosexual people have dealt with it in the past is by either committing suicide like Chris said or living through the rigors of society which includes the close-minded stereotypical, short-sightedness of the everyday person.
I have to sympathize with the homosexual society because they have gone through a lot of abuse throughout the years but they are making some head way. What I do not like about the gay community is their overpowering push to be recognized equally which is almost having a negative effect on their situation because I, myself, have to admit that it does get a little tiresome when you hear "gay right this" and "gay rights that" all the time. If you consider how things were even a century ago you will know that women and children had no rights and even a lot of our fellow man had no rights because of class status. Yet, now you see that those things have at least changed so I believe it is inevitable that the gay community will one day get the recognition they strive for. So, although it is not my intentions to be mean to you, Chris, or to other people in your situation, I just want to say we have all heard the same stories over and over about suppression and animosity towards homosexual people so even you I criticize for ranting in this thread. It gets old so let it go and let people share the opinions they have.
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Old 12-06-2006, 10:47 PM   #42
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Default Re: parents...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrizX
Safe to assume it varies per person?
Not really.

SSA is either caused by homosexuality/bisexuality, or by a paraphilia. Let's make one thing clear: it's never a choice.
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Old 12-06-2006, 11:26 PM   #43
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Default Re: parents...

Alot of people I know their parents have been able to pick out their gay from the ages of 5-8. These people also tend to be extremely flamy feminine types however.

About chemical reactions, virtually all scientists agree that sexuality is either pre-birth hormones or DNA. Right now it seems that it's likely that it's pre-birth hormones, and that DNA strings can change the affect of hormones. However it's possibly to have a gay person and straight person with identical DNA (And their are a few cases of this).

Also one thing about sexual orientation and gender orientation, it's defiantly not a choice, but anything is possible. I have seen things with my own eyes that are completely not explainable. Sexual orientation and gender orientation are VERY VERY complex things and cannot be understood even by a person like me. However I do have a very good grasp of idea's from my research that I have conducted.

I do agree that the rights of GBLT (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual & Transgender) have greatly improved in many ways in the US. It's one of the most major issues in the country right now with alot of people split on the issue. Rights are nowhere equal right now, we still get killed for who are are, loose our jobs, and live everyday in fear.

I'd also like to point out there are other major discrimination and hate problems that are a huge issue in North America. Racism, laws prohibit racial discrimination completely in the US, and on paper they still have the same rights. However equal they maybe in the law, they are defiantly not treated equal. I'll blabber on about this later but Racism is also a huge problem.

I would also like to post part of an article called "Hetrosexual rights" which was written by someone I know (A straight person too)

"We live in a heterosexual-dominated society. We have all grown up learning that being heterosexual is “normal”, “natural” and “the right way”.

As we learn from the experiences of LGBT people, however, we can change our attitudes and, ultimately, our behaviours. The first step is to recognize the privileges that heterosexuals have that LGBT people do not.

If you are heterosexual, your privileges include …

1. the right to marry without question.
2. the right to kiss or show affection in public.
3. the right to talk openly about your girlfriend or boyfriend.
4. the right to have children without question.
5. the right to be considered normal.
6. the right to be validated by your religion.
7. the right to be socially accepted.
8. the right to family support.
9. the right to have your intimate relationships equally represented in movies, television shows, etc.
10. the right to feel proud of your intimate relationships 365 days of the year.
11. the right to know you cannot lose your job because you are heterosexual.
12. the right to walk down the hall without being called derogatory names because you are heterosexual.
13. the right to not worry you will be beaten up or killed because you are heterosexual.
14. the right to live without fear that someone will find out you are heterosexual.
15. the right to use the court system without being afraid of how your heterosexuality might be used against you.
16. the right to be heterosexual without being asked what caused it.
17. the right to be heterosexual without being told it’s a phase.
18. the right to be heterosexual without being called a child molester.
19. the right to be heterosexual without witnessing hurtful stereotypes of your sexual orientation.
20. the right to display pictures of your girlfriend or boyfriend without fear.
"
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Old 12-07-2006, 02:36 AM   #44
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Default Re: parents...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ-CHRIS
You make it sound like it's a choice.

And you have no idea what everyday is like for a gay person, it's difficult. We are not treated equally because of who we are, alot of us are constantly harassed and the law doesn't protect in most states. In alot of parts of the US, it's legal to fire someone for their sexual orientation, and other parts of the world, it's the law to execute gay people.
Come & live in Britain, the law protects everywhere here.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ-CHRIS
Alot of people I know their parents have been able to pick out their gay from the ages of 5-8. These people also tend to be extremely flamy feminine types however.

About chemical reactions, virtually all scientists agree that sexuality is either pre-birth hormones or DNA. Right now it seems that it's likely that it's pre-birth hormones, and that DNA strings can change the affect of hormones. However it's possibly to have a gay person and straight person with identical DNA (And their are a few cases of this).

Also one thing about sexual orientation and gender orientation, it's defiantly not a choice, but anything is possible. I have seen things with my own eyes that are completely not explainable. Sexual orientation and gender orientation are VERY VERY complex things and cannot be understood even by a person like me. However I do have a very good grasp of idea's from my research that I have conducted.

I do agree that the rights of GBLT (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual & Transgender) have greatly improved in many ways in the US. It's one of the most major issues in the country right now with alot of people split on the issue. Rights are nowhere equal right now, we still get killed for who are are, loose our jobs, and live everyday in fear.

I'd also like to point out there are other major discrimination and hate problems that are a huge issue in North America. Racism, laws prohibit racial discrimination completely in the US, and on paper they still have the same rights. However equal they maybe in the law, they are defiantly not treated equal. I'll blabber on about this later but Racism is also a huge problem.

I would also like to post part of an article called "Hetrosexual rights" which was written by someone I know (A straight person too)

"We live in a heterosexual-dominated society. We have all grown up learning that being heterosexual is “normal”, “natural” and “the right way”.

As we learn from the experiences of LGBT people, however, we can change our attitudes and, ultimately, our behaviours.
I know we do'nt always see eye to eye in other matters, & I'm not saying one way or another that I am, as regard to my inclination, that doesn't come into it, we are all entitled to our personal opinions, as I know you will agree, but I do admire the way you express yourself, as demonstrated here, I'm giving you a rep point if I'm allowed to do so, yes I was, you've got it, well deserved!
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Old 12-07-2006, 05:35 AM   #45
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Default Re: parents...

kay, enough of the argueing back and fourth with different views..

seicntific research..

http://www.narth.com/docs/istheregene.html

http://www.gene-watch.org/programs/p...sexuality.html

http://www.newdirection.ca/a_biol.htm


so.. about this, scientists agree.. these would suggest otherwise..


now, it honestly doesnt bother me if its a choice or not, personally, i believe there is some element of choice there, i dont buy into the 'i was born that way' theory..

one thing i do disagree with is gay couples adopting, its not fair on the children.. they will be bullied at school because of that, its not 'natural' to have two guys, or two ladies as your parents, im not being 'homophobic' or whatever other titles are assigned to it, people claim its against their human rights, what about the human rights of the child? i do not think its fair on the child to be raised by a homosexual couple, the kid will have trouble making friends, and will have trouble with bullying.


i do disagree with gay people being discriminated against as far as work and things like that go, but when it involves another human, such as a child, i disagree with them being allowed to adopt.


now, dont take this the wrong way.. its your way of life, and i respect that, however, i just dont buy into the whole its genetic thing, the studies which have been made, show discrepencies..
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:22 AM   #46
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Default Re: parents...

Okay.. This thread got a bit out of control. How can talking about parents and how they treat you turn into talking about sexuality?

I for one believe it is set at birth or at least in early years somehow, through development.
You then don't realise you are or aren't until puberty, since thats when you start looking at girls/guys in another light.
Its possible for a gay guy/girl to be attracted before puberty to the opposite sex if they are gay (before they know) Since in innocense and that, the opposite sex is new to you, so you kind of explore as a child, but not in the same way as when things switch on, as it were.

Anyhow, back to the subject, my parents are over protective, and worry when I go out, etc. I do have to phone/text to say where I am and when I'll be coming back, etc. I don't mind though, if its keeping their minds from thinking things.
Theres been a few times in my life where I haven't told them, and arrived home very late, etc from where I was, to find my mum in tears etc thinking somethings happened and thinking of calling the police and that...

As I'm getting older though, their getting less protective which is good, and do allow me to go out alot more freely, seeing that its my own decision now.
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Old 12-07-2006, 07:55 AM   #47
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Default Re: parents...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark thorpe
kay, enough of the argueing back and fourth with different views..

seicntific research..

http://www.narth.com/docs/istheregene.html

http://www.gene-watch.org/programs/p...sexuality.html

http://www.newdirection.ca/a_biol.htm


so.. about this, scientists agree.. these would suggest otherwise..


now, it honestly doesnt bother me if its a choice or not, personally, i believe there is some element of choice there, i dont buy into the 'i was born that way' theory..

one thing i do disagree with is gay couples adopting, its not fair on the children.. they will be bullied at school because of that, its not 'natural' to have two guys, or two ladies as your parents, im not being 'homophobic' or whatever other titles are assigned to it, people claim its against their human rights, what about the human rights of the child? i do not think its fair on the child to be raised by a homosexual couple, the kid will have trouble making friends, and will have trouble with bullying.


i do disagree with gay people being discriminated against as far as work and things like that go, but when it involves another human, such as a child, i disagree with them being allowed to adopt.


now, dont take this the wrong way.. its your way of life, and i respect that, however, i just dont buy into the whole its genetic thing, the studies which have been made, show discrepencies..
The first and third article were written by known total right wing nutcases. You can't trust what a church backed research group, as their findings will be flawed.

Also, if you think theirs an element of choice, please explain how I could chose this choice?

And for adoption, I am 100% for it. If we accept people for who they are it's no problem. I have known people raised by same sex parents that have normal lives and were socially popular. This person lived in one of the worlds most accepting city's however (Toronto)
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Old 12-07-2006, 08:22 AM   #48
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Default Re: parents...

I don't agree that you are born eith er gay or straight at birth, I think it's something that develops over time, like most preferences in life.


I've know people who have married had kids etc only to later 'discover' that they are in fact gay, leave their families and go off and be gay, if they were gay to start with, do you thik that they were just sying to themselves and knew all along... most people who have done that would disagree with that.

they could choose to live a straight life, or choose to live a gay life...

DJ chris, in your first post you pointed to biological differences between straight and gay people. now you say that you can't trust research into biological difference between gay people and straight people? Make you mind up, there either are difference, (in which case you are born to be gay), or there are no differences, (in which case it's a preference born out of choice).

I'm not saying that it's a choice that you can change.

for instance, I don't like eating mushrooms, that's not a biological difference (between me and people who do like eating them), it's preference, it's also a preference that I can't change, I honestly feel sick whilst eating them, the same as straight people may honestly feel sick if they had sex with a man, or a gay man may feel sick having sex with a woman.

point is that it is a choice...

explain how you choose...???

go stick your dick in a woman, and don't put it in any more men...
then you get to say that you are living a heterosexual life, you may still be attracted to men, but you're choosing to live a heterosexual life.

It's the same as there is a poularised image of beauty, (just go resurect on of the babe threads -actually don't just look at them), but that doesn't mean that some people don't find that attractive and maybe find other people attractive. it's still a choice.

so far as choosing to live a depressed life of alcoholism, drugs and suicidal thoughts...
many people both straight and gay have those thought.

if you climbed down from your soapbox a second and looked around you'd see that you're not the only person in the world that has problems,

and it was your choice to use alcohol/drugs as a way to deal with that, so don't start blaming the preassures of society or being gay there either...

how can you complain that your chosen religion won't accept you... religions are fudamentally just organisations that have membership rules. you can't choose what rules you want to apply to you or not...

if your religion won't accept you because your gay, then perhaps it's time to choose a new religion that you can live by. then that religion would accept you.
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Old 12-07-2006, 10:56 AM   #49
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Default Re: parents...

My theory, I feel that life is life and its like that simple as pie.

Your gay your gay
Your straight your straight

How, I don't know, nor do I care to find out. I don't care if its a choice of biological. I really could care less. Your a person and thats what counts.

In a debate about gay rights I was asked (I was supporting gay rights) if I feel being gay is natural or choice. I replied.

There are many preferences, weather they be caused by biological affects or simply by choice they are in fact your preference. And this delegate does not see it fit for any other person on this world to criticize your preference on a certain subject matter, weather it be Pepsi or Coke, Steak or Salad, Water or Milk, Or finally Straight, Homosexual, or Bisexual. Its not in this delegates position to comment on weather its choice or "by birth" nor do does this delegate feel it proper to even care, for its a preference, its that person's preference and not anyone else preference. And it is not proper to discriminate against a man cause he prefers steak over salad or Pepsi over coke, so its also not right to descrimate a man because he is gay, straight or both.


At the end of my reply, everyone began clapping and it was prob one of my best serious replies I ever did.

I always grew up, looking at both guys and girls and wondering but I seemed to just lean to girls a lot more. So I did, i've known guys or girls that describe as they were growing up they just leaned to the same sex more. I feel its a preference weather as in my lil reply to the other speakers question its a preference and what causes it I don't know, nor do I care.
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Old 12-07-2006, 10:57 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by root
.......go stick your dick in a woman........
Taken out of context, I know, but still a little too graphic perhaps.
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