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Old 06-02-2005, 03:22 PM   #11
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Default Re: Outragous

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
it's not the school that maters it's the individuals drive to better themselves...
While I am in agreement with most of that in which you are saying...There is a big difference in schools(locations) and what teacher assignments by the school districts and in ecconomical restrictions too. Basically those areas with the most money get the best teachers.
Almost any where you look within the US you will find that the more aflfuent... then the better the education! This is in itself unacceptable within a public school system, yet is prevailent throughout the states.
I for one am glad that the government has set guide lines as to requirements to admittance for colleges to have to accept the top 10% of ANY graduating class. This ensures that not only the middleclass but poor also has an equal opportunity to receive a higher education. This allows that an individual that has overcome an educational disadvantage of ecconomical geographics still has an opportunity to succeed.
Now, I agree that it is a matter of an individuals drive to better themselves. It is also dependant, more so, on the parental influence concerning that child and the childs education.
There are just too many parents that believe that it is the governments responsibillity to educate their children. This is just not true. And here is where it starts to fall apart.
The governments sole role is in the provision of an equal opportunity to receive an equal education. This includes the taking of taxes and supporting ecconomically depressed school districts so as to teachers salaries as well as for the text books and the building of new schools, along with the passing of legislation to control the admittance to higher educational facillities
Anything less would be in itself a step backwards to a seperarist state. And this CAN NOT beallowed to happen at anytime nor any where.
Every person should be given the opportunity to receive an equal education as the next person, regardless of their station in life. And every means possible should be utillized in performing that duty.
It is too easy for the rich to buy the way for their children to attend the best schools wheter the child deserves it or not. And it is too easy for the
school to say no to the enrollment of a student from an ecconomically depressed area even though they have met the criteria for enrollment. Schools do this because they are dependent upon donations from outside areas...this causes them to look at admittance not by credit but by whether or not they could get monies, either now or in the future from those they admit.
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Old 06-02-2005, 04:36 PM   #12
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Old 06-02-2005, 04:41 PM   #13
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Default Re: Outragous

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Originally Posted by lurkswithin
It is too easy for the rich to buy the way for their children to attend the best schools wheter the child deserves it or not.
I've heard people say that before but I've always failed to see how it is true. Can you please explain more of that for me? (I'm serious too, not mocking you)

I do strongly agree though with the idea in here that most of it lies in the individual. If they do not have that yearning to learn, understand and succeed in life, they won't try in the first place. Those are the people who I feel are leeches in society. They go around in life, not wanting to work for a living, complaining to society, blaming everyone but themselves, all the while popping out babies and failing to guide their children in the right direction (which makes the cycle continue). There are, however, exceptions to the broad description I just described. Some people may have had a bad start in life, but were still able to have a good life later on because they had that drive to succeed in life and followed through with it. I feel that every person on earth can have a fairly good quality of life, if they only would try.
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Old 06-02-2005, 04:59 PM   #14
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Default Re: Outragous

i was referring to the public schools around where i live, they are awful, but the government still urges the people that dont get good grades to go to university, most of the people that go to the schools around here are smokers and on drugs by the time they are my age, i dont like the way the government urges people without the knowlege to go to university, that was what i was saying, i think that the entry should be based on knowlege, not the social background and the schools that the people come from...

it wasnt an attack at you, if you had the knowlege, which you do, then you should have been accepted... but there are some very clever people that go to my school that havnt been chosen for university courses, and i think that it is because of political correctness...

the scum was referring to 99% of the people that go to the public schools around where i live, i should have explained it better... but from the area that i come from, the public schools are very bad. and they do not give a good education to their students, but most still get into university, and quite a few of the people that i know that have been through public schooling around here have fallen out of university because they cannot cope with it.

what i was trying to say was that i dont think that people should be descriminated against because they went to a private school, so that the government can achieve good targets... this is an anti-government opinion, not an anti public school opinion, if the student can do the course then they shoudl be allowed to do it, but i dont think that if they are not going to be able to do the course, then they shouldnt be allowed to enter the university, and then drop out 6 months down the line...
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Old 06-02-2005, 05:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: Outragous

sorry, when I say public school, I mean a private one, if that clears anything up. I attend Shrewsbury school and people get good marks etc. etc. in public exams and although (i think) 30 people got into oxbridge, im not sure how many there are in the U6th form, and how many applied... that hasnt got anything to do with it. I think that people should be offered places on their GRADES, not their social background or the school they came from, their RESULTS. I dont care which school people came from. I people are slightly better off and want to pay for their education, thats fine by me. I have been to a state school in Cheshire, and it was in fact quite good, loads of nice people, good teachers and a legendary headmaster, he's soooo cool, but hes retired now and the school is crap. So speaking from a position in which I have experienced both situations, sure there are some chavs in state schools, but not everyone in private schools plays polo every sunday and owns at least 15 horses, just stereotypes. There are a lot of intelligent people in state schools, I wouldnt hold that against them (that they're from a state school). I am just commenting on the fact that the school that people come from shouldn't come into it, its Blair and his stupid cronies fucking up the country for me and you.
Seti, I dont think that he meant that all people from state schools are scum, sure some are but I certainly dont think you are, the best mod on the forum
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Old 06-02-2005, 05:36 PM   #16
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Mark, I see from your location that you are in the UK...

can I just correct one mistake that you are making...

a public school (in the UK) is a privatly funded school like a boarding school

a private school (ni the UK) is a state funded school, like the one the 'scum' attends...

Just for the record, I know many people whao atended public schools, (the posh knob ones) who went on to do nothing with their lives except live off of daddies fortunes...

I also know amny people who went to private schools (the dirty scummy ones) Like I went to, who went on to better them selves and go to university, I also think it's worth mentioning that I also know a fair few people who magage to balance a drug habbit and an education and made it through uni quite sucessfully...

Like I said before not giong to uni, not being accepted and dropping out have far more to do with individual charecter, drive and ambition that it does social upbringing, wealth or the type of school that has been atteded...

I'll agree that that public schools tend to have a better education, though this isn't because the rest of us are scum, it's because class sizes are generaly smaller, teachers are better paid, therefore the schools attract better teachers, and finally people who are 'disruptive trouble makers' are easily kicked out of school, whilst the exclusion of pupils is not so common place in private schools where there is nowhere else to go.


It is not that the people in public schools are being discriminated against, it is more the case that people who don't have the money to attend a public school are discriminated against because it is though that those with a public school upbringing are generally better educated and will make better universty candidates...
This however is not true and those with privaet school upbringings do make equally as good university candidates.
The reason there is a suggested imbalance, or tipping of the scales is to get the people who otherwise wouldn't have atended universities to actually go to uni and better themselves... there is a skills shortage in the UK.

If yuo read the times on monday you'd haveread that children from sinlge parent families attending private schools are much les likely (20% less likely) to attend higer educations than their wealthier counterparts... and we've already discussed and agreed that the undereducation of people seems to just form a vicious circle of generation after generation of people who do not, and may never atend university...

certainly I know that I'm the first person in my family to attend University. (though it wasn't due to any kind of government incentive).

I'm not having a go, but I do hope you understand that not all people who attend private schools are scum, and not all people who attend public schools aer gods gift to the world with an automatic right to education based ontheir supposed better schooling...
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Old 06-02-2005, 05:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: Outragous

Quote:
Originally Posted by root

Just for the record, I know many people whao atended public schools, (the posh knob ones) who went on to do nothing with their lives except live off of daddies fortunes...
(please dont lock this thread, but im afraid Ill have a massive flaming session right now... dont rise to it....ah f*ck it)

Absolute bollocks, I know many people in my school, who are yes, extremely well off, some are my best friends, they are neither knobs nor will they live off daddys fortune... I myself am not rich and cannot live off my fathers sucess as THE RIGHT TO THE FAMILY BUSINESS HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN IN HIS WILL, yes thats right, I cannot inherit the family business and there is no daddys fortune to live off as there isnt one, ok, please, please dont stereotype.
If you weren't being offensive, then i withdraw and apologise profusely ( I did find you argument rather confusing actuall) I am fed up with being sterotyped as the rich snob, as i am neither.
My reason for starting this thread was to see other peoples reaction to the news article was, not whether they think private schools are morally and/or politcally correct. That is another topic and another thread, if you wish to start such a thread, be my guest but I expect it will be locked pretty soon.
thank you
N.B. I mean no offense to anyone, particulary root (assuming I have completely misunderstood his argument, which seems likely)
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Old 06-02-2005, 05:55 PM   #18
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Default Re: Outragous

yes i do understand that not all people that attend state schools are scum, its just that most of the people around my area are... theres always some clever kids, but most of them are on drugs by the time their my age...

what i was trying to say was that i dont think that it is right to not take people from private (paid for) schools for that reason, and to take people from state schools because it fits into the government targets...

thats what i was trying to say... i didnt word it very well because i was annoyed at the time... mabye i should stay away from the boards when im annoyed... itll make my posts make more sense... i wasnt attacking anyone... apart from the governments policies...
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Old 06-02-2005, 05:58 PM   #19
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Default Re: Outragous

Quote:
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wasnt attacking anyone... apart from the governments policies...
exactly my feelings, im sorry if i have offended anyone in this thread, but it is a sensitive subject, and I do get annoyed with people that assume all people in private schools are snobs
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Old 06-02-2005, 06:00 PM   #20
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Default Re: Outragous

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techy Geek
(please dont lock this thread, but im afraid Ill have a massive flaming session right now... dont rise to it....ah f*ck it)

Absolute bollocks, I know many people in my school, who are yes, extremely well off, some are my best friends, they are neither knobs nor will they live off daddys fortune... I myself am not rich and cannot live off my fathers sucess as THE RIGHT TO THE FAMILY BUSINESS HAS BEEN WITHDRAWN IN HIS WILL, yes thats right, I cannot inherit the family business and there is no daddys fortune to live off as there isnt one, ok, please, please dont stereotype.
If you weren't being offensive, then i withdraw and apologise profusely ( I did find you argument rather confusing actuall) I am fed up with being sterotyped as the rich snob, as i am neither.
My reason for starting this thread was to see other peoples reaction to the news article was, not whether they think private schools are morally and/or politcally correct. That is another topic and another thread, if you wish to start such a thread, be my guest but I expect it will be locked pretty soon.
thank you
N.B. I mean no offense to anyone, particulary root (assuming I have completely misunderstood his argument, which seems likely)
okay, didnt see that... my dad works in a dead end job at ford, on a pretty low salary, and has just been divorced by my mum... so he hasnt got any riches what so ever... this is a sterotype... my mum and grandparents saved up for me to go to a good school (all the state schools around here are not very good...) and thats the only reason why i go to a private school... because of my mum and granparents, i havne even seen my dad for about 6 months, and have only spoken to him like 3 times since he was thrown out by the courts...

so what you said about daddies fortunes is sterotypical, and false...
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