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Old 02-21-2009, 06:05 PM   #41
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Default Re: Outrage over Obama's Stimulus "Scheme". . .

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This is exactly what's hurting our country right now. People can't seem to put their political differences aside, and work together to make best of what we currently have. The election is over.
Well, since Washington has always acted very chauvinistic, I figured any of my suggestions would be worthless.
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Old 02-21-2009, 06:57 PM   #42
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Default Re: Outrage over Obama's Stimulus "Scheme". . .

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This is exactly what's hurting our country right now. People can't seem to put their political differences aside, and work together to make best of what we currently have. The election is over.
Probably the best point made in this thread....Why cry about yesterday when we have a future to worry about... There is nothing we can do to change all the things that have already happened....All we can do is work together to create more opportunities and prosperity for tomorrow...
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Old 02-21-2009, 07:52 PM   #43
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Default Re: Outrage over Obama's Stimulus "Scheme". . .

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Probably the best point made in this thread....Why cry about yesterday when we have a future to worry about... There is nothing we can do to change all the things that have already happened....All we can do is work together to create more opportunities and prosperity for tomorrow...
And it's teh same thing with the mortages... they need to be paid whether we like it or not... But if I find some guy living in a nice house in a nice neighborhood like Barrington, IL or something along those lines... And he is using my money for his mortage payments... I may walk up to him and say, "Next time, don't be such and idiot..." And punch him sqaure in the nose....
Either way, the mortages need to be paid, I just wish people weren't so stupid with their spending...
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Old 02-21-2009, 09:34 PM   #44
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Default Re: Outrage over Obama's Stimulus "Scheme". . .

Hey, I lived part of my family in a trailer before nothing wrong with that. It's what we could afford at the time.
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Old 02-23-2009, 02:09 PM   #45
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Default Re: Outrage over Obama's Stimulus "Scheme". . .

What's F*CKING hilarious is that 90% of you guys were pro-Obama for the election. Let's look at this thread again:
http://computerforums.org/showthread.php?t=76952
Most of the people who voted for Obama couldn't tell you a single policy of his.

But what happened happened. Now Obama can take our money and give it to the poor. Instead of getting this:

My family will instead be paying for this:


Go ahead, call me selfish, spoiled, whatever; but my family worked for its money. My dad worked on his dad's farm as a kid. I worked my ass off to get the grades to get a car, which is never going to happen now.
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Old 02-24-2009, 06:17 AM   #46
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Default Re: Outrage over Obama's Stimulus "Scheme". . .

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Well, my friends stepdad was a construction worker, they have an older house in a small town, it's not too expensive, it's nothing fancy, but it's a house with enough room for the family. They got by, but recently, her stepdad lost his job, now, after filing taxes, they didnt have a penny left, and are coming on some hard times. Especially with her going to college next year. I don't think because he lost his job temporarily, that they should be forced to permanatly move out of their house. I think they should be given a certain amount of time to get a new job. The government shouldn't pay our expensises for us, but it should be a low interest loan if we want it maybe. Give back what we need when we can.
for the first part, houses in small towns are usually more expensive than houses in cities.
perhaps they should consider moving and sorting their own financial situation out rather than begging for handouts from the government.
times are really hard, especially with their daughter heading off to college, really IF times are really that hard who is paying for their daughter to go to college, why doesn't she put off going for a year and get a job to help support her family and house in these difficult times and go next year or perhaps the year after when the financial climate is better?
you say that they can't afford their house, but they can afford to support their kid through college? perhaps they should get their priorities straight here, having somewhere to live IS more import than a college education.

your last suggestion was good, I've often thought that the creditors should be more flexible and pro-actively offer people a different payment plan during these tough times to help keep people in their houses.

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Here's the thing about the stimulus. By paying others mortages, we are helping ourselves in a way. The neighbor down the road, that isn't able to pay for his house, which is the same value as yours, as well as you can pay for your own, so we need to help him out. If you don't, and you say, well, he can move into a cheaper house... well, then his current house will go into foreclosure, causing the value of your house to go down as well. This is only the beginning of a chain reaction. That causes some other neighbor, or yourself to have less equity in your own house, and that equity might drop below the debts you have, causing you to go into forclosure as well, lowering the value of the other houses even more...

So basically, we who are smart, get screwed either way. We loose money by paying some other idiots mortages, or someone elses foreclosure lowering the value of our own houses...
If these people hadn't been stupid in the first place, we wouldn't have these problems, but now there is nothing we can do...

And the banks made stupid mistakes as well. They make a good decision and make profit, it's their gain, but not ours. If they do something stupid, and loose money, it's our money lost, but not theirs. So because of this, they take some stupid risks.
That's the most ridiculous thing that I've ever heard.

are you seriously saying that if you can live in a nice house that other people should be allowed to as well even if they can't afford it.
here's the deal.
if I have a house, it's because I've borrowed some money and bought that house, if I've borrowed beyond my means, then that's my fault.
if my neighbour borrowed beyond their means that's their fault.
why SHOULD I pay higher taxes so that they can have their loans and mortgages paid for them whilst I have to struggle on actually paying for my own house.

the simple answer is that they shouldn't.
IF YOU BOUGHT A HOUSE THAT YOU CAN'T AFFORD THEN, SORRY, YOU DON'T GET TO LIVE THERE.

so far as the house prices falling in your area, a falling house price and negative equity will not make a mortgage company foreclose on your loan. defaulting on payments will.

if you can't afford a house, then you can't live there.

if you over stretched yourself when arranging a mortgage, then that's your fault. not mine.
you should loose your house, not force me to pay ever rising taxes to the government so that I have less and less money to pay for the loans or mortgages that I COULD afford.

besides which, if you live in a sensible house, with a mortgage that is not beyond your means then you have no trouble, even if the house prices go down, (which they all surely will anyway) they will rise again.




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Originally Posted by freestyler105 View Post
Go ahead, call me selfish, spoiled, whatever; but my family worked for its money. My dad worked on his dad's farm as a kid. I worked my ass off to get the grades to get a car, which is never going to happen now.
no, your dad worked his ass off to be able to afford to buy you a car, now that money might have to be put to 'better use' in your family.
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Old 02-24-2009, 08:09 AM   #47
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Default Re: Outrage over Obama's Stimulus "Scheme". . .

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for the first part, houses in small towns are usually more expensive than houses in cities.
perhaps they should consider moving and sorting their own financial situation out rather than begging for handouts from the government.
times are really hard, especially with their daughter heading off to college, really IF times are really that hard who is paying for their daughter to go to college, why doesn't she put off going for a year and get a job to help support her family and house in these difficult times and go next year or perhaps the year after when the financial climate is better?
you say that they can't afford their house, but they can afford to support their kid through college? perhaps they should get their priorities straight here, having somewhere to live IS more import than a college education.

your last suggestion was good, I've often thought that the creditors should be more flexible and pro-actively offer people a different payment plan during these tough times to help keep people in their houses.


That's the most ridiculous thing that I've ever heard.

are you seriously saying that if you can live in a nice house that other people should be allowed to as well even if they can't afford it.
here's the deal.
if I have a house, it's because I've borrowed some money and bought that house, if I've borrowed beyond my means, then that's my fault.
if my neighbour borrowed beyond their means that's their fault.
why SHOULD I pay higher taxes so that they can have their loans and mortgages paid for them whilst I have to struggle on actually paying for my own house.

the simple answer is that they shouldn't.
IF YOU BOUGHT A HOUSE THAT YOU CAN'T AFFORD THEN, SORRY, YOU DON'T GET TO LIVE THERE.

so far as the house prices falling in your area, a falling house price and negative equity will not make a mortgage company foreclose on your loan. defaulting on payments will.

if you can't afford a house, then you can't live there.

if you over stretched yourself when arranging a mortgage, then that's your fault. not mine.
you should loose your house, not force me to pay ever rising taxes to the government so that I have less and less money to pay for the loans or mortgages that I COULD afford.

besides which, if you live in a sensible house, with a mortgage that is not beyond your means then you have no trouble, even if the house prices go down, (which they all surely will anyway) they will rise again.





no, your dad worked his ass off to be able to afford to buy you a car, now that money might have to be put to 'better use' in your family.
Living in rural areas is cheaper then in the cities. She lives in town, but its a rural town. College isn't going to cost much for her, she is very smart, she will be able to pay back student loans and what not when she is done. Most people that do what you suggest never end up going to college. And education is the biggest factor in poverty in the US.


Also, yes, either way we look at we will be hurt by the people that bought too expensive of houses. I don't think we should be paying for them, but we don't have a choice. If your equity falls below your debt, you are in debt, and the bank will take back what it owns. That's how it works.
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Old 02-24-2009, 11:39 AM   #48
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Default Re: Outrage over Obama's Stimulus "Scheme". . .

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Living in rural areas is cheaper then in the cities. She lives in town, but its a rural town. College isn't going to cost much for her, she is very smart, she will be able to pay back student loans and what not when she is done. Most people that do what you suggest never end up going to college. And education is the biggest factor in poverty in the US.
That rather depends on the city. and the rural area. without knowing more details there isn't a lot that can be said about that.

when people talk about education and poverty they are talking about basic education.
the kind of people that leave school with no qualifications that can't do basic math, that can't read very well, that can't write clearly. if she's clever enough to get into college she'll hardly fall below the poverty line because she had to settle for a 20k a year job rather than a 40k job. (note that i'm thinking about jobs in the UK not US when I said about salaries).

My parents didn't go to college or university, but they weren't poor.

freestyler said his dad worked on a farm most of his life, now he's buying his son a nice car, that's hardly poor.

education linked to poverty does exist, but only in the people who don't get good schooling, either through failure of the state, (i.e there are not good schools in the area), though more often failure of the individual, -i.e they never paid attention in class and never bothered learning to count.

Quote:
Also, yes, either way we look at we will be hurt by the people that bought too expensive of houses. I don't think we should be paying for them, but we don't have a choice. If your equity falls below your debt, you are in debt, and the bank will take back what it owns. That's how it works.
We DO have a choice, we can say no! we don't want to pay other peoples bad debts and loans.

just as a slight point of what you said, "if your equity falls below your debt, you are in debt and the bank will take what it owns"

that's not true.
if it were how do you explain >100% mortgages, where people actually borrow more than the value of the house? they are in negative equity from the start!

if the equity of the property falls below the value of the loan that you owe, then you have reached negative equity. not that you have reached a level of being in debt.
That doesn't mean that the bank will foreclose,
banks only foreclose on debts when there is little chance of you being able to pay it back, or when you default on your payments etc...

And I stand by what I said before,
markets are cyclical, those that haven't extended themselves too far are the ones that will be able to keep hold of their homes.
and yes, the value of those homes may go down at the moment, but the market will pick up again, and the value will go up again.

It's all very well to say that you'll help the guy down the road pay off his mortgage, but what about when the market picks up again. and he sells his house making a profit, a profit from your tax dollars that helped him pay for his house? how do you feel then?

you were sensible enough not to overextend yourself, you don't fall into the sub-prime category, you're a responsible borrower. -you still feel the pinch as everyone is, but you planned for that and you're able to ride it out.

The guy down the road wasn't sensible, he just wanted a nice house, you'll have been forced to help pay for it, and then he can make a profit from it?


I think that the right way to go would be to not pay peoples mortgages for them, but to offer financial incentive to the banks to not reposes or foreclose. to offer financial incentive to employ more people as creditor attached debt advisers, people who can say, well you'll struggle to pay off that 100k loan in ten years, so how about we work out a new payment plan, say over 20 years so that the payments are manageable now,

when the economy picks up again people may choose to carry on paying at a reduced rate over a longer period, or may choose to pick up their payments to get the loan paid off faster.

just giving money away to those people who can't or didn't plan for their future, who over extended themselves, and got into trouble is wrong.

and I don't care whether it's a global problem or not, giving money away just accelarates the problem.


For example, I know that the government doesn't want to see people loose their homes, so why don't I say 'nuts to it' I'd quite like a new car, I'd quite like a new TV, a new motorbike would be nice as well. a New PC might be nice since I've only got my work laptop. my house repayments don't matter, because the government will pick up the tab of my excess? -and you'd actually support that?
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Old 02-24-2009, 04:06 PM   #49
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Default Re: Outrage over Obama's Stimulus "Scheme". . .

I was complaining about this in physics today. My teacher asked if I'm paying taxes. I said no, not yet. She then said that when I do pay enough that I don't get all of what I paid back that it will not be a problem. I laughed.


I don't want other people's money in my pocket. I get a job so I can earn the money I put in my pocket. If I wanted other people's money in my pocket I'd go rob someone right now.
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