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Old 11-02-2011, 12:58 PM   #11
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Default Re: Occupy Madison!

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jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning. :P
No, it wasn't, but it is one of the hottest burning substances. Paper didn't increase the temperature of a jetfuel fire, nor did the desks/walls/etc.

The thick black smoke that was pouring from the towers also indicates a suffocating fire.

Fire fighter tapes indicate that the flame would've been knocked out with two hoses.

Watch any video of the towers falling and tell me you can't see the demolition squibs (looks like dust shooting straight out of the side) below the accumulation of falling building debris.

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Not wanting to turn this into yet another 9/11 thread
True, there's plenty of those.

The whole occupy thing, I would agree with foothead on this; they should have indeed been more structured with their list of what they would like to see accomplished instead of blindly protesting.
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:59 PM   #12
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Default Re: Occupy Madison!

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Melting point of typical structural steel: 2750ºF
Jet fuel burns at 1517ºF
Still weakens and gets soft. Steal will expand inside the concrete, all that fun stuff. The bolts will loosen, all sorts of things happen...
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Old 11-02-2011, 01:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: Occupy Madison!

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Watch any video of the towers falling and tell me you can't see the demolition squibs (looks like dust shooting straight out of the side) below the accumulation of falling building debris.
That was caused by air pressure from the building collapsing above. It built up until a window blew out, then shot out in a slow puff. A "demolition squib" would do rather the opposite; there would be a large and rapid initial explosion, followed by very little debris. They were also in really dumb places for a controlled explosion. There's no reason to blow up the middle of the building, in random places. The smartest way would be to blow out the supports on a few floors, then let the building crumple under its own weight.


For reference, here is what a building implosion looks like.

[video=youtube;qk06ax1SRIM]
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Still weakens and gets soft. Steal will expand inside the concrete, all that fun stuff. The bolts will loosen, all sorts of things happen...
Thermal expansion is what you have to worry about. Softening of steel really isn't all that big a deal at these temperatures, considering how overbuilt modern skyscrapers are.

EDIT: iPwn, Read this. It's the clearest explanation I could find.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:36 PM   #14
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Default Re: Occupy Madison!

the steel doesn't melt, it just softens enough for the 110,000T worth of conrete and metal ontop of it to make it give way
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Old 11-04-2011, 09:29 AM   #15
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Default Re: Occupy Madison!

xkcd: Jet Fuel
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Old 11-04-2011, 10:00 AM   #16
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Default Re: Occupy Madison!

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the steel doesn't melt, it just softens enough for the 110,000T worth of conrete and metal ontop of it to make it give way
Exactly. Same thing when you are working on your car and a bolt is stuck, use a propane torch to heat the nut up, expanding it just enough to loosen it up. Bolts that required 400 ft-lbs + to break free now only take 30 ft -lbs to do the same thing. Propane isn't too hot, but it sure does the trick. MAPP gas is MUCH better, but more expensive for the equipment.

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