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Old 10-30-2012, 07:19 AM   #51
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Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

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Originally Posted by Hameister View Post
If that's what you're saying, I fully agree.
that's exactly what I'm saying...
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These days because of the bad economy, bonds, and CDs, are only adding $1,200 to their already minimal income, which makes it very difficult for them. Period. That's all I was trying to say, as regards the economy.
I agree entirely, with that point, but what I'm saying it that to say that it is necessarily bad that interest rates are low is fundamentally a selfish idea.

What I'm saying is anybody who gambles, (regardless of how historically certain the risk may have been) shouldn't feel too aggrieved when their gambles aren't going their way. if a person needs to gamble to supplement their pension income etc then they didn't save hard enough for their retirement. -it would never have been a good strategy to assume that you could gamble with government lending, just the same as it'd never be a good idea to assume that roulette is the answer to all financial woes.

as for why I say it's selfish. would you prefer an uncontrollable boom economy?
on the outset, those relying on return from financial investment products, (be they stocks/shares/bonds etc) probably would immediately, a boom economy sets central interest rates high, (which sets your lending rate) and therefore gives them individually greater returns.
we had the boom, this is just the bust part of that coaster!
it doesn't necessarily mean that the economy is performing extremely poorly, just that it is doing what is natural.

the truth of the matter is that in most western economies governments have much less control over markets than financial institutions.


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Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
Nothing in life is guaranteed except change.
the idea that inflation will reach 10% or 20% is ridiculous, inflation rates are controlled rather effectively through the use of interest rates.

they are a blunt instrument, and perhaps not quite as effective as one might like. but they are there.

however, it does neatly help to tie in why inflation must be controlled, (such that governments bonds are actually worth something, after all bonds, (are investments to you and I) but are borrowing for a government, and they need to perform at a certain level, (ideally for the economy as low as possible).
I.e. central financial institution set interest rates at a low rate in order to prevent uncontrolled inflation. the reason that central borrowing rates are set so low is that the country needs to control inflation.
it might be that those with a pension are getting a lot less than they were getting, but they'd be considerably more screwed if they get their extra $3k that they feel that they deserve, but at the same time the price of a loaf of bread is like $20 more.

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Whilst the story about your father is nice, it is merely anecdotal information which you are attempting to portray as how things typically work during a recession
the point of the story is not everyone in the 80's lost their job and never worked again, which is the popular fantasy about what actually happened.
And it seemed to be the route that you were going down.
yes the facts are, as you say SOME people found it extraordinarily difficult to find work.
but the facts are also that SOME people changed/moved/diversified and found work -some even found it with relative ease.

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because to me your explanation that people cant find work because they are lazy is complete nonsense
I never said that people who can't find work are lazy, just that I find it hard to believe that some hard working people NEVER managed to find work again.
and somehow their kids NEVER managed to find work, and their kids NEVER managed to find work.
Whilst you yourself say even in this recession you manage to hold down two different jobs.
Those people that are third generation "never worked a day" always claimed benefits have a problem, and that problem is not that there is no work. it's that they are not brought up to believe that they don't have to work.

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For example at the moment I am struggling to find a graduate job , I would completely consider relocating but I just cannot afford the cost associated with it so I have had to take 2 jobs and am trying my best to save up so that I might be able to relocate one day . Does that make me lazy because I cant find graduate work or cant relocate at this very moment in time ?
the harsh truth here is McDonalds is always hiring. sure it's not the graduate job that you'd hoped for, but it's a job. you're kinda proving the point for me though.
those who are hard working and with a sense of responsibility, and who lack the sense of entitlement that I believe that people who decide not to work have, - I'll include you in this (hard working).
the hard work ethic people (such as yourself) take a job, it's not their perfect job, but it puts food on the table, if that job isn't enough they search out better jobs or take second jobs.
those without the hard work ethic (and they are plentiful) decide that they'll wait for their dream job, or that going to work is difficult, or that having a job won't pay as much as claiming state benefits.


Quote:
I too could share an anecdotal story about someone I know who was in construction in the 80's and who was out of work for numerous years in the 80's as a result of the recession,he even moved back to glascow to live with his parents for a number of the years and could not find work . yet he is now back in construction . despite nearing his 70's he still works a lot 6 and sometimes 7 days a week and he has no intention of retiring any time soon , I wouldn't call that lazy. I included this nearer the end of the post as I did not want to appear as though this was my sole evidence for describing the typical experience of workers during a recession
you completely missed the point then.
whilst this guy lost a job and found it hard to find employment there are three important things here.
1, he did manage to find work again.
2, he did move to minimise his costs
3, he did not decide that work is difficult to find so he should chose to live on handouts for the rest of his life.
Quote:
Even my great grandad who was a joiner struggled to find work for a few years during the 80's recession when jobs he was contracted to kept falling through ,at one point he considered moving abroad but had no conceivable way of raising the necessary capital to move . yet after the recession he was right back in work up until his retirement again I wouldn't call that lazy and I would point out that none of the generations that followed him where or are sat around on the dole doing nothing they all worked/do work
I wanted to provide information all be it stories that shows that not everyone who looses their job during a recession is a lazy benefits scrounger
These stories prove nothing I haven't already demonstrated with the widely accepted fact that unemployment increases during a recession and fall during the period of growth afterwards because people who would otherwise want to be in work struggled to find work during the recession .
so again, we're talking about the same kind of people then.
people who:
unfortunately lost their jobs.
had to rely for a short period of the welfare safety net.
as soon as they were able to find work. did...


none of this is disagreeing with what I said though?
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:15 AM   #52
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Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

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...I know I said I wouldn't go there but what do you think the exit stratergy should be with Iraq...

Seems to me at this point, whatever troops the U.K. & the U.S. have left, should be sent home immediately. Period. If the Iraqis can't deal with their own issues by now, they never will.

Next
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Old 10-30-2012, 10:20 AM   #53
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Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

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.....if a person needs to gamble to supplement their pension income etc then they didn't save hard enough for their retirement...
Agreed, now we're on the same page!
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Old 10-30-2012, 11:18 AM   #54
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Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

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Originally Posted by Hameister View Post
Seems to me at this point, whatever troops the U.K. & the U.S. have left, should be sent home immediately. Period. If the Iraqis can't deal with their own issues by now, they never will.

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Now you know why there are still there, and this applies to other hot spots around the globe.
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:24 PM   #55
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Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

About 15 minutes ago I was watching TV. A reporter had a microphone shoved in a woman's face, asking her about her house, in a rural suburb.

The woman was angry, she said..."this is the 5th time, in the 23 years I am living here, that we've had extensive damage as a result of flooding from storms"....she went on the say, "the last time, we had to rebuild our house completely." She asked, "Where is the government? Why doesn't the government build a dike or something, to protect us."

This woman obviously feels, that as a citizen, she is entitled to have the government provide her with protection from the flooding conditions often seen from a local river.

What do you folks think about that? Is her request reasonable, or not?
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Old 10-30-2012, 03:43 PM   #56
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Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

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Originally Posted by Hameister View Post
About 15 minutes ago I was watching TV. A reporter had a microphone shoved in a woman's face, asking her about her house, in a rural suburb.

The woman was angry, she said..."this is the 5th time, in the 23 years I am living here, that we've had extensive damage as a result of flooding from storms"....she went on the say, "the last time, we had to rebuild our house completely." She asked, "Where is the government? Why doesn't the government build a dike or something, to protect us."

This woman obviously feels, that as a citizen, she is entitled to have the government provide her with protection from the flooding conditions often seen from a local river.

What do you folks think about that? Is her request reasonable, or not?
I would suggest she move to a better location with government assistance. She needs to accept the responsibility of where she has decided to live.
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:00 PM   #57
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I would suggest she move to a better location with government assistance. She needs to accept the responsibility of where she has decided to live.

I don't understand,... when you say, "with government assistance". Are you saying that the government should pay for her to relocate?
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Old 10-30-2012, 05:27 PM   #58
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I don't understand,... when you say, "with government assistance". Are you saying that the government should pay for her to relocate?
If necessary as I believe government should be there to support basic life and property which may pay back the government over time.
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Old 10-30-2012, 08:52 PM   #59
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If necessary as I believe government should be there to support basic life and property which may pay back the government over time.

I see.....so, even though this woman made a foolish decision, by building her house in a flood prone area, you believe that the federal government should pay her to relocate.

Then, it follows that this would not apply to just this one woman. This would have to apply to anyone who has built a house in an area that is prone to natural disaster.

So, you'd have the government pay all those people in California who have rebuilt numerous times, only to have their house wash away in the next mud slide. Or, the folks who's houses have been destroyed, and rebuilt numerous times as a result of fire, earthquake, etc.

Since the government would have to pay all these expenses with taxpayers money, do you think that the government should just pay for these relocations as an entitlement, (for free), or would these people have to pay the government back over a period of time?
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Old 10-30-2012, 09:09 PM   #60
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Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

I believe:
where people have bought/built houses on flood planes etc they should be responsible for purchasing their own insurance for protecting against loss caused by flooding, - i.e their private insurance should pay for the cost of rebuilding/refurbishing their house.

however I agree, municipal flood defences should be, well, municipally funded at either local or state governmental level
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