Go Back   Computer Forums > Welcome To Computer Forums .org > Social Lounge | Off Topic
Click Here to Login
Join Computer forums Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-29-2012, 12:59 PM   #41
Daemon Poster
 
Hameister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 887
Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

Man, I don't know what I can say to get through to you. You apparently do realize that when you purchase a bond, or a CD, or Treasury note, it is guaranteed for the interest rate agreed upon, for the duration of the paper.

You said this..."your returns are not guaranteed past any point in time." Let's stop there. You realize they are guaranteed, and risk free.

Now, here's where I think you're losing me. You apparently think that I'm saying that having a bond, or CD portfolio as a a sole investment strategy for retirement is a good thing.

Nothing could be further from the truth. You are absolutely correct in saying that you can purchase any number of bonds today, next month, or maybe 4 years from now at a 6% rate of return. But that doesn't mean that 7 years from now you won't find it hard to purchase a bond with a 2.8% return. Therefore, using bonds, or CDs, as ones sole income is not any guarantee that you can always be able to buy them at a high rate of interest.

If that's what you're saying, I fully agree. However, I never at any time suggested such a thing. That's not what retired folks do. They have their pensions, or annuities, or various sources of income, along with Social Security, that get most folks through their retirement years. They also buy CDs, and bonds as part of their income for a guaranteed, no risk return. There are hundreds of thousands of retired people today, who may have, (as an example), a $38,000 income. They have grown accustom to subsidizing that income with perhaps $5,000 per year from CDs, Treasury Notes, or Bonds. These days because of the bad economy, bonds, and CDs, are only adding $1,200 to their already minimal income, which makes it very difficult for them. Period. That's all I was trying to say, as regards the economy.

I never mentioned, nor suggested anything regarding stock market investments. In that regard, I believe as you do. Are we clear now?
__________________

__________________
HAF 932 Advanced / Corsair AX1200 / Asus Rampage IV Extreme / i7-3930K / H100 Cooling 4x120mm
16GB Corsair DDR3 / GTX 580x2 SLI + GTX 460 PhysX / SSDs Mushkin 240GB, Crucial 256GB, Crucial 512GB
Hameister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 03:50 PM   #42
..m.0,0.m..
Site Team
 
iPwn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 3,870
Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hameister View Post
when you purchase a bond, or a CD, or Treasury note, it is guaranteed for the interest rate agreed upon, for the duration of the paper.
Quote:
In the interview for his latest blockbuster Aftershock, Wiedemer says the 90% drop in the stock market is “a worst-case scenario,” and the host quickly challenged this claim.

Wiedemer calmly laid out a clear explanation of why a large drop of some sort is a virtual certainty.

It starts with the reckless strategy of the Federal Reserve to print a massive amount of money out of thin air in an attempt to stimulate the economy.

“These funds haven’t made it into the markets and the economy yet. But it is a mathematical certainty that once the dam breaks, and this money passes through the reserves and hits the markets, inflation will surge,” said Wiedemer.

“Once you hit 10% inflation, 10-year Treasury bonds lose about half their value. And by 20%, any value is all but gone. Interest rates will increase dramatically at this point, and that will cause real estate values to collapse. And the stock market will collapse as a consequence of these other problems.”

Source
Nothing in life is guaranteed except change.
__________________

__________________
Me: You'd think as the dominant species we wouldn't be so effing stupid.
J: We're just intelligent enough to be completely effing stupid.
iPwn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 04:37 PM   #43
Daemon Poster
 
Hameister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 887
Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
Nothing in life is guaranteed except change.
Obviously, you have no idea what I'm talking about, because your posted quote, has nothing what so ever to do with the statement I made.

But, you're free to believe what ever you wish if it makes you happy.
__________________
HAF 932 Advanced / Corsair AX1200 / Asus Rampage IV Extreme / i7-3930K / H100 Cooling 4x120mm
16GB Corsair DDR3 / GTX 580x2 SLI + GTX 460 PhysX / SSDs Mushkin 240GB, Crucial 256GB, Crucial 512GB
Hameister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 08:47 PM   #44
In Runtime
 
OS-Wiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 334
Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

Equities/stocks: Equity Definition | Investopedia
These are backed by private companies in the US with no affiliation with the US Government. Stock dividends can vary by the success of the company or totally fail if the private company goes out of business.

US Government Bonds: Government Bond Definition | Investopedia
These are backed by the US Government. The interest rate is fixed at the time of purchase.

US Treasury Bill - T-Bill: Treasury Bill (T-Bill) Definition | Investopedia
These are backed by the US Government. The interest rate is fixed at the time of purchase.
__________________
i7-3930K - Corsair H100 push/pull fans - ASUS Rampage IV Extreme - 4 x 4GB G.Skill DDR3 2133 - 2 x EVGA GTX680s in SLI - OS, 256GB Samsung 830 SSD - Games, 256GB Crucial M4 SSD - Antec TPC 1200W - Dell 27" IPS 2560x1440 - APC XS1500 UPS - Win7 Ultimate x64
OS-Wiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 08:48 PM   #45
muz
Golden Master
 
muz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,928
Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by root View Post
Respectfully, I disagree.
nobody ever had a career "mapped for life".
my father left school in the 70's, and to this day his only qualification is a level 2 in art, his has absolutely no other qualifications having failed everything else.
this hasn't stopped him working every day of his life.
He was a builder in the early 80's until the recession, (the same one that made mining unaffordable) also bought the construction industry to a halt.
he was unemployed then for all of 6 weeks, before he started his own business, which he has done ever since.

Respectfully, the notion that people are consigned to the scrap heap because they job that they were doing is no longer available I find a laughable excuse for laziness.

I'm also one of these people who agree with what Norman Tebbit once said. (he's an unpopular conservative politician of the conservative era)

he said: "I grew up in the '30s with an unemployed father. He didn't riot. He got on his bike and looked for work, and he kept looking 'til he found it."

indeed, I find it hard to argue that if you can't find work, you may necessarily need to move to a place where you can find work. and if this means re-locating across the country, or even to a different country then so be it.

-it may be interesting to realise that America being the country that it is, this is largely exactly how people forefathers got there, there was no work where they were, so they moved themselves and their families to a place where there was work such that they could make a living.

In this country there were a lot of people deeply offended by the idea that if there was no work local to you that you should move, I doubt that there would be as much outrage in the states over such a comment.

my point is... even in the 70's and 80's there was work available, if you we willing to search hard enough and far enough to find it.
those that did search for work kept working, those that did not are the likely candidates for being those families of 3rd generation benefit claimants who have never worked a day in their lives, just as their fathers never worked a day in their lives, just as their fathers lost their job and lived out their days on state support.
Whilst the story about your father is nice, it is merely anecdotal information which you are attempting to portray as how things typically work during a recession ,in the face of the widely accepted fact that during times of recession people become unemployed and struggle to find work again this is perfectly exemplified by the fact that unemployment figures rise when you have recession and fall when you once again have growth .However I know that his story does not provide evidence of what times of recession are like hence why I am dealing with the widely accepted fact about recessions .

How else would you explain this ? because to me your explanation that people cant find work because they are lazy is complete nonsense .do you think the miners who where passionately demonstrating against the closure of their mines would not have done any other type of work they could had the jobs been there for them ? the fact remains that during a recession there are less new jobs being created,compounded with the fact that jobs are being lost . the miners knew this and knew that if they lost the mines many of them would struggle to find work for years to come(like many people actually did ) not because they where lazy but because there would be no jobs for them to take .they didn't want to become the 3rd generation benefit claiming families you describe hence the widespread strikes and conflict you saw other the issue .

I do not dispute that there are of course some lazy people out there and but they would have already been lazy and probably on the dole before the recession struck , or they where people who where waiting to be laid off to have the excuse that they cant find work but looking down on honest hard working people who struggled to find work during the recession in the 80's and calling them lazy is an inaccurate cop out

Its all good and well telling people they should move across the country or even across international boundaries to find work but are you going to pay for them to do this because for many that is simply not affordable how is someone who has just been laid of going to afford relocating especially international relocation .
For example at the moment I am struggling to find a graduate job , I would completely consider relocating but I just cannot afford the cost associated with it so I have had to take 2 jobs and am trying my best to save up so that I might be able to relocate one day . Does that make me lazy because I cant find graduate work or cant relocate at this very moment in time ?

just as a side note

I too could share an anecdotal story about someone I know who was in construction in the 80's and who was out of work for numerous years in the 80's as a result of the recession,he even moved back to glascow to live with his parents for a number of the years and could not find work . yet he is now back in construction . despite nearing his 70's he still works a lot 6 and sometimes 7 days a week and he has no intention of retiring any time soon , I wouldn't call that lazy. I included this nearer the end of the post as I did not want to appear as though this was my sole evidence for describing the typical experience of workers during a recession
Even my great grandad who was a joiner struggled to find work for a few years during the 80's recession when jobs he was contracted to kept falling through ,at one point he considered moving abroad but had no conceivable way of raising the necessary capital to move . yet after the recession he was right back in work up until his retirement again I wouldn't call that lazy and I would point out that none of the generations that followed him where or are sat around on the dole doing nothing they all worked/do work
I wanted to provide information all be it stories that shows that not everyone who looses their job during a recession is a lazy benefits scrounger
These stories prove nothing I haven't already demonstrated with the widely accepted fact that unemployment increases during a recession and fall during the period of growth afterwards because people who would otherwise want to be in work struggled to find work during the recession .
__________________
Desktop-AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+-2GB Elixer DDR2 800 250gb+500gb+500gb+120gb
Laptop-Apple Macbook Pro 13" Intel core i5(2.3ghz) 4gb Ram 320gb hard drive
muz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 09:07 PM   #46
muz
Golden Master
 
muz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,928
Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hameister View Post
Ok then, let's just assume that it was a misunderstanding and go from there.

We were supposed to be discussing Syria. That was your question. Next thing I know you're all over the map. Your bringing in America's treatment of Native Americans, our Civil War, etc. Those issues, have nothing what-so-ever to do with the issue you wished to discuss which is Syria. One topic at a time ok?

I make no apologies for my opinions as regards Syria. You use words like prejudice, which has no bearing at all on my comments. It's not prejudice, it's simple fact. The Arab cultures have been warring with one another for thousands of years, that's their history.

Now we introduce these jihadist religious lunatics that want to kill everyone that doesn't agree with them. So of course, I think it's a very natural reaction for me to say let them kill themselves. I don't want to spill one drop of American blood that isn't absolutely necessary.
I brought the native Americans and your own countries civil war info it because it stinks of hypocrisy that you can speak in such a tone that them lot over there are all into killing each other when that is not something that your own countries history is exempt from . sure they have a bloody history in the middle east but does your own country and indeed countries the USA supports such as Israel not have equally as bloody histories , Hell some even label Israel as an example of a terrorist state

I agree with you that the Islamic fundamentalist extremism does not help matters in the middle east but the I think your inaccurately portraying the issue in Syria as it is not one where the word Jihad is relevant .Islamic extremists are not trying to take over Syria at the moment , if they where I think it would be in everyone's interest that the west acted to prevent that happening otherwise you would see a failed state like we did with Afghanistan
I apologist for jumping to the conclusion that you where being prejudicial , i thought that you where labeling everyone in the Arab world with the same Islamic extremist label and saying that they all are just interested in killing each other , it important that you recognize the difference between fundamentalist Islamic extremists and ordinary every day Arabs trying to bring about much needed and demanded regime change in their country

The problem in Syria for me is a simple civil war where you have one side that wishes to erect their newly crowned leader and you have an old leader who still commands the military who wishes to resist this new coronation and uses his firm grip over the military to his advantage . It is something that a lot of countries have experienced at some point in their history and not one that we need to get involved in at the moment . in fact if we do get involved we take away from the Syrian people their freedom of political determination which in the long run would be more damaging for them .

However what would you say if Assad starting explicitly targeting ordinary citizens including women and children tomorrow ?
__________________
Desktop-AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+-2GB Elixer DDR2 800 250gb+500gb+500gb+120gb
Laptop-Apple Macbook Pro 13" Intel core i5(2.3ghz) 4gb Ram 320gb hard drive
muz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 09:17 PM   #47
Daemon Poster
 
Hameister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 887
Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by muz View Post
....However what would you say if Assad starting explicitly targeting ordinary citizens including women and children tomorrow ?
That's a different scenario entirely. That's a premeditated act of genocide, and I would expect that every civilized country in the world should be a party to military action to stop it.
__________________
HAF 932 Advanced / Corsair AX1200 / Asus Rampage IV Extreme / i7-3930K / H100 Cooling 4x120mm
16GB Corsair DDR3 / GTX 580x2 SLI + GTX 460 PhysX / SSDs Mushkin 240GB, Crucial 256GB, Crucial 512GB
Hameister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 09:29 PM   #48
muz
Golden Master
 
muz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,928
Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

agreed completely , customary international law would support unilateral military intervention in my view .

What do you think about Iran then , what would be your ideal presidential response to the Iranian enrichment program and the reasonable proposition that Iran could proliferate a nuclear missile
__________________
Desktop-AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+-2GB Elixer DDR2 800 250gb+500gb+500gb+120gb
Laptop-Apple Macbook Pro 13" Intel core i5(2.3ghz) 4gb Ram 320gb hard drive
muz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 03:02 AM   #49
Daemon Poster
 
Hameister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 887
Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by muz View Post
agreed completely , customary international law would support unilateral military intervention in my view .

What do you think about Iran then , what would be your ideal presidential response to the Iranian enrichment program and the reasonable proposition that Iran could proliferate a nuclear missile

Hey, we agree on something! I knew that had to happen sooner of later.


Regarding Iran, I believe that no country has a higher stake in this than Israel. It is they, who are consistently, and openly, being threatened with annihilation by Iran. I believe the U.N., the U.S., Great Britain, and others have taken the correct position with regards to sanctions.

However, I also believe that Iran must be taken seriously. Their leaders are unstable, maniacal people. They've proved that many times over. A nuclear Iran is unacceptable in the world community.

If Iran continues their quest, they will eventually reach the point where Israel will no longer be able to tolerate the threat, and they will have to take military action. At that time I would expect the full support of the United States and the rest of the world.
__________________
HAF 932 Advanced / Corsair AX1200 / Asus Rampage IV Extreme / i7-3930K / H100 Cooling 4x120mm
16GB Corsair DDR3 / GTX 580x2 SLI + GTX 460 PhysX / SSDs Mushkin 240GB, Crucial 256GB, Crucial 512GB
Hameister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2012, 06:50 AM   #50
muz
Golden Master
 
muz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,928
Default Re: The "Non-Political" Political Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hameister View Post
Hey, we agree on something! I knew that had to happen sooner of later.


Regarding Iran, I believe that no country has a higher stake in this than Israel. It is they, who are consistently, and openly, being threatened with annihilation by Iran. I believe the U.N., the U.S., Great Britain, and others have taken the correct position with regards to sanctions.

However, I also believe that Iran must be taken seriously. Their leaders are unstable, maniacal people. They've proved that many times over. A nuclear Iran is unacceptable in the world community.

If Iran continues their quest, they will eventually reach the point where Israel will no longer be able to tolerate the threat, and they will have to take military action. At that time I would expect the full support of the United States and the rest of the world.
It would be hard no to agree that in the face of genocide the world community should do something stop the slaughter of innocent civilians .

I again agree completely that a nuclear Iran is a threat to peace and security .

my only thought on the matter is that something should have been done pre-emptively before Irans enrichment program was allowed to grow . Back several years ago it would have took a small strike at one facility to essentially wipe out all of its enrichment capability and set Iran back a great deal . now you would be looking at having to use a lot more than just a small airstrike at multiple facilities and potentially endanger civilians to wipe out their capabilities and so the circumstances under which you can use such means in self defense have changed so that the threat has to be imminent .

So after all of this agreeing what topic do you want to debate next ? .
I know I said I wouldn't go there but what do you think the exit stratergy should be with Iraq . I am specifically asking what you think the exit stratergy should be I am not all that interested in weather you think we should be there or not the fact remains we are there and have been there for nearly 10 years now .How do you think the exit should be conducted ?
__________________

__________________
Desktop-AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+-2GB Elixer DDR2 800 250gb+500gb+500gb+120gb
Laptop-Apple Macbook Pro 13" Intel core i5(2.3ghz) 4gb Ram 320gb hard drive
muz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0