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Old 03-21-2007, 03:13 PM   #41
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Default Re: Named & Shamed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brookfield
[1] Wrong thread to be bringing this up.

[2] You seem to have two views on things, you say something sensible & very helpful, & I reply to you saying that's good or whatever, then you spoil it by saying this, I guess it's about UK, if it is, & about his demotion, he deserved it, he got very personal & very nasty, & that's going too far in my book!
[1.] This is the only thread on the matter.
[2.] It's about your lack of respect for your countrymen and your allies. It's your propagating of media that demoralizes the very people who are willing to take up arms and do what their country asks without hesitation.
[3.] What happens to the pilots is their business and no one else's. So stop your spreading of this material. Shit happens. It's war. Get over it. Go find something more productive to propagate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark thorpe
you cant moan about jenox being rude to you, and in the same sentence slag off another member. that is just being hypocritical.

jenox.. in this case, no problems.. just egnore maurice...


there have been some great points bought up here, there must be a huge amount of stress on those guys.. i was wrong with my first post here, ive changed my mind, i still wouldnt phrase it in that way, but there have been some good points made..
Sorry if I get heated over the matter. But with my bestfriends and family over there,and the potential for them to die, and then someone moaning about what goes on. Quit frankly anyone could get heated over it. My statement still stands though.
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Old 03-21-2007, 03:28 PM   #42
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Default Re: Named & Shamed

I haven't quite decided a point on this issue yet, but I have a very sensitive viewpoint on how we look at death. People care less when it doesn't directly affect them, and I feel thats wrong. Remember that behind every person is a family and possible children who live on without them, and must continue to live with their lives changed forever.

Time helps to heal wounds, but shall never erase what was once there.

For example, to this day I still mourn for 9/11 and if someone dared to call it a 'trivial incident' or refer to it as 'not a big deal,' I'd likely lose my patience with them very very quickly. Having personally experienced 9/11 in a very real way, more so than the millions that saw it on the TV for weeks and weeks, it is sensitive to me. In that same respect, I take any loss, regardless of quantity, to be a large loss to our people.

And yes, people die in war.. but does that mean that when entering war you forfeit all rights and all forms of organization all together? In my opinion, certainly not.

In any case, not a single one of us can clearly identify what their mentality was as they performed their duties that fateful day. Therefore, everything said is basically a speculation, because its not as if we can truly identify what they could've done, or what we would've done in that situation.

Its certainly a difficult issue, but in any case, I wish the families of those lost my best, and hope that they can follow the road to recovery.
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Old 03-21-2007, 03:43 PM   #43
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Default Re: Named & Shamed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahawolf
I haven't quite decided a point on this issue yet, but I have a very sensitive viewpoint on how we look at death. People care less when it doesn't directly affect them, and I feel thats wrong. Remember that behind every person is a family and possible children who live on without them, and must continue to live with their lives changed forever.
i see your point. im guilty of doing this though. although i find it sad when someone dies i forget about it very soon after. i just see it as one of those things. if it was a family member or a friend i would remember it for the rest of my life. lots of people are like that. loads of people die each day, we couldnt possibly mourn for them all.
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Old 03-21-2007, 11:11 PM   #44
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Default Re: Named & Shamed

I always think of that song by Bob Dylan where he talks about the children and future generations lost by a death. My family and friends are going over there. This is a very real incident for me. I love my country, no doubt. I love my army, my navy, the very things that help to protect this country despite criticism. So when someone brings up a matter like this and starts saying the things Maurice said, I take it rather offensively. As anyone would do if they themselves were in the same incident.

I do think that the pilots made a mistake and as such should be trained on how to properly handle this matter. Demotion, jail, whatever. You CAN NOT criticize someone for making a mistake when they have to live with the mistake of killing a fellow soldier, countrymen or allie, it's a very real and very painful thing to live with. I think, and this is entirely my opinion, but I think that the punished bearing on their conscience is far greater then any jail time could ever amount to. This is however assuming the soldiers do feel some grief.

I personally carry the mentality that shit happens to the best of us, especially in war. And there's nothing we can do about it. The only thing you can do is get your shit together, accept what has happened, and move on. because in times of war, lingering on lost comrades will only distract you in the battlefield, and that can cause death to you or your friends. And if you or your buddies dies, who's going to tell the story the way it was meant to be told, who's going to mourn for those lost aside from the families? The media and all it does is complete bullshit. They only say things that will generate more coverage, and criticism generates more coverage and views then positives do. This is fact.

This is why I hate CNN and all the TV programs that cover Iraq and Afghanistan. Because they always just try to point the finger and some lone soul who's got more then enough shit to deal with. So propagating material like this is something I find vastly immature, incredibly disrespectful, and downright wrong. Although wrong is a point of view, and it's subjective, and can therefor be criticized, I do feel obligated to speak out for my family and friends in regards to this matter because they are the ones who live with the thoughts and knowledge that they too might very well kill a comrade or might die themselves. So an issue like this is something I do not tread lightly on.
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Old 03-22-2007, 09:31 PM   #45
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It's funny how much hypocrisy there is in this thread. Just from one member too. I won't state his name though, but if you're smart enough you should know who it is.

Anyways, my opinion still stands. The pilots deserve to be punished in a court following military law. Now if we can only get the media and public to just back the f*** off and let things go the way they should...
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Old 03-23-2007, 05:48 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvino
The pilots deserve to be punished in a court following military law.
Excellent idea, but theres no guarantee there won't be a very skilfull cover-up. It's happened many many times in the past, even going back to the distant past, & by no means does this apply only to America. We, the British, have been guilty of this down through the years, as have many other countries, in fact probably all of them. Come on guys, tell me some places where you think they haven't, & I'll see what I can uncover.
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