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Old 11-06-2017, 12:08 AM   #1
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Default Mass shooting too close to home

Texas is a gun friendly state then a nut come along and screw it all up.

https://www.ksat.com/news/shooting-s...ooting-airlife

Sutherland Springs is 21 miles SW of San Antonio Courthouse. Probably less from where I live.

I'm against gun bans but I'll go along with banning assault rifles. I used to have an AR15 and I thought that it's a great self defense weapon because of high capacity and rapid fire. Then I thought it also can wreck havoc on people. I decided to get rid of it.

I'm keeping my 10mm pistol and my 12 gauge pump.
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Old 11-06-2017, 04:49 AM   #2
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Default Re: Mass shooting too close to home

You seem to have an awful lot of nutters over there. Mind having said that we have our fair share this side of the pond it's just you lot have more people.
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Old 11-06-2017, 08:22 AM   #3
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Default Re: Mass shooting too close to home

A lot more people that are stupid asses. Living like animals.
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Old 11-06-2017, 08:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: Mass shooting too close to home

I also think that you are going to get gun control sooner or later and probably sooner rather than later. I don't know whether or not that will prevent mass shootings, probably not, but it's going to come. What that might provoke the extremists in the "no gun control lobby" into doing is anybodies guess.
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Old 11-06-2017, 08:41 AM   #5
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Default Re: Mass shooting too close to home

Some say that the problem are people not the weapons and I agree but the availability of said weapons on the streets are the real problem.

Texas allow weapon sales face to face without paperwork. The only criteria is that the buyer is of age and has a valid Texas Driver's License. A lot of FTF sales are done without the IDs.

When I sold my guns FTF I required a valid gun permit to do the deal. Those who has it appreciated me and those who don't are pissed.

Too bad. My guns my rules.
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Old 11-06-2017, 06:28 PM   #6
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Default Re: Mass shooting too close to home

I don't really know what to think about it to be honest.

I agree with the argument that guns are tools. (and if these people didn't have guns they'd just use knives, or explosives, or petrol, or a hire van.)

The responsibility for how a tool use used is entirely with the individual.



but I also recognize that a car is a tool also,
and we mandate that you must be of good health, have all your faculties, undergo training and take a test before you can have a car.

in the modern world having a car is a lot more basic than having a gun, yet it seems a lot more restricted.
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Old 11-06-2017, 09:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: Mass shooting too close to home

If guns were outlawed then only outlaws would have guns.

Criminals do not obey existing gun control laws so adding more won't make a difference to the criminal element but instead will only hinder those who already abide by the laws.
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Old 11-07-2017, 02:40 AM   #8
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Default Re: Mass shooting too close to home

Glad it didn't reach you, Cel.

I also send my prayers and thoughts to the victims and their families. They didn't deserve to be assaulted while performing their duties, which happened to be religious by chance. You have no idea how sad this made me

If murder is the worst crime ever, how bad does that make it if done under such settings?

As for guns, I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment about it because here we don't have such a problem (it's banned here with some extremely strict exceptions).

I did see a controversial point in the link, tho. It was about if it is bad that the killer had guns (including pistols) or good that the rescuer who confronted him had one, a point raised in relation to gun control, and if it affects the opinion of allowing or banning guns.

Not sure about the killer's part of the above equation, but I'm at least sure it was a good thing the rescuer was there to confront him. If it wasn't for him, death count could have been much more. I'm glad he was there for that.
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Old 11-07-2017, 04:43 AM   #9
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Default Re: Mass shooting too close to home

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrotterTech View Post
If guns were outlawed then only outlaws would have guns.

Criminals do not obey existing gun control laws so adding more won't make a difference to the criminal element but instead will only hinder those who already abide by the laws.
That's true,
And it is a point that is already highlighted in the article first linked.
Quote:
Officials said he did not have a license to carry guns.
that's actually a hyper-link to this article: https://www.ksat.com/news/texas-chur...air-force-says

He was a criminal, there was an element of gun control in place (he could not legally own one.) but he still had guns. - the point is not that gun control doesn't work, but that poor gun control, badly enforced does not work.


As I said before cars, a few people may drive illegally, or in a criminal way but we actively try to find those people.
and it's probably not just because the police get the money from tickets, it's because if we just let people speed, because a few would anyway. if we just let people go with car with no brake lights, if we just let people go who don't have road worthy cars, then a lot more people would die in traffic accidents as a result...

It is a similar situation with guns, by not policing effectively "we" (well "you" as I'm not in the US) allow these gun deaths to occur.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart_Guy View Post
I did see a controversial point in the link, tho. It was about if it is bad that the killer had guns (including pistols) or good that the rescuer who confronted him had one, a point raised in relation to gun control, and if it affects the opinion of allowing or banning guns.

Not sure about the killer's part of the above equation, but I'm at least sure it was a good thing the rescuer was there to confront him. If it wasn't for him, death count could have been much more. I'm glad he was there for that.
This is something that is often said, the only thing that can protect you from a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

but really it is not all that simple or true. (at least not universally true, - there are plenty of cases where people are accidentally killed by the good guy with the gun.)

*most* people, (including people who spend loads of time on the range) are just not conditioned to be able to think properly under fire. - that's why they don't just hand you a gun and send you on your way to war if you join the police or military. they train you. extensively, live fire exercises.
those forces that train for situations like this, (I.e how to deal with terrorist situations, mass shootings etc) are trained whilst being shot at.

The reality of the situation of the good guy having a gun in a mass shooting is a bit more bleak than take out the shooter save the hostages, "mission complete";
The good guy will be basically shooting into the crowd, and is more likely to hit someone else than the actual shooter.
The good guy will be a guy holding a gun at a mass shooting, and is more likely to be shot by police thinking that he is the shooter.

In this case the shooter was ex-military, so there is a real good reason to believe that he would have simply been a better shot, and coped with the stress of being under fire better than random passer by with a gun.


In this situation the good guy apparently managed to wound the shooter, but the shooter still drove away and took his own life later.

Basically, this doesn't really tell you either way, the best case scenario here is, good guy saves crowd by wounding shooter causing him to flee.

the worst case is, man endangers crown by firing into/through crowd with lethal weapon managing to mildly hurt other man.


the good guy with a gun, did of course do a good thing, I'm not taking that away from him, just pointing out that it's not as simple as turn up and hero the sit
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Old 11-07-2017, 04:46 AM   #10
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Default Re: Mass shooting too close to home

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smart_Guy View Post
Glad it didn't reach you, Cel.

I also send my prayers and thoughts to the victims and their families. They didn't deserve to be assaulted while performing their duties, which happened to be religious by chance. You have no idea how sad this made me

If murder is the worst crime ever, how bad does that make it if done under such settings?

As for guns, I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment about it because here we don't have such a problem (it's banned here with some extremely strict exceptions).

I did see a controversial point in the link, tho. It was about if it is bad that the killer had guns (including pistols) or good that the rescuer who confronted him had one, a point raised in relation to gun control, and if it affects the opinion of allowing or banning guns.

Not sure about the killer's part of the above equation, but I'm at least sure it was a good thing the rescuer was there to confront him. If it wasn't for him, death count could have been much more. I'm glad he was there for that.
And there you have it folks in an absolute nutshell.
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