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Old 12-06-2004, 09:59 PM   #61
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Default Re: Man What An Honor

General Zhukhov was a great leader, without him the russian military would have been screwed! What are you talking about.

Oh and who do you think he killed during his regime before the war. He killed all those who even mildly outspoke against him. Yes it is very evil and idiotic, but he used this method to make sure no second civil war would erupt after the bloody one between the red and white army. Trust me, russia was on the brink of a second revolution, because people were starving, underpayed, and pretty much screwed. If stalin let them speak their opinions, they would start a new revolution.

Note; I AM Not SAYING THAT WHAT STALIN DID WAS RIGHT, I'm simply saying that if russia went into revolution again, the eastern front would be crushed in the first few weeks of ww2.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:29 PM   #62
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That's what I meant Giancarlo when I mentioned Franco remember I did ask you to correct if I was wrong.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:44 PM   #63
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Default Re: Man What An Honor

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakedog
General Zhukhov was a great leader, without him the russian military would have been screwed! What are you talking about.

Oh and who do you think he killed during his regime before the war. He killed all those who even mildly outspoke against him. Yes it is very evil and idiotic, but he used this method to make sure no second civil war would erupt after the bloody one between the red and white army. Trust me, russia was on the brink of a second revolution, because people were starving, underpayed, and pretty much screwed. If stalin let them speak their opinions, they would start a new revolution.

Note; I AM Not SAYING THAT WHAT STALIN DID WAS RIGHT, I'm simply saying that if russia went into revolution again, the eastern front would be crushed in the first few weeks of ww2.
Stalin killed those who he thought were against him. In the end many were murdered even though they weren't against him. He wiped out much of his officer corps. Zhukhov was nothing more then wreckless. He was a terrible strategist. Stalin didn't let people speak their minds, but he didn't have to wipe out his entire officer corps that wasn't even speaking out against him. He just thought they were. Even the Germans spread false information in Russia to convince Stalin his officers were speaking out against him before the breaking of the Stalin-Hitler pact.

And with or without the Russian revolution, the Russians were tough fighters. The eastern front wouldn't of collapsed.

Why? Because by the time the invading force reaches Moscow they are freezing to death and are out of supplies. Look at what happened to Napoleon. Everybody knows invading Russia head on is not a good idea. No matter their military state.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:48 PM   #64
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Yeah but still if Russia had gone into another revolution the eastern front would have collapsed even you have to admit that Giancarlo
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:50 PM   #65
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Yeah but still if Russia had gone into another revolution the eastern front would have collapsed even you have to admit that Giancarlo
Russia wouldn't of gone into another revolution. I didn't say Stalin had to liberalize the society. However he killed much of his officer corps or sent them to Siberia. Even you have to admit you don't know what I am saying.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:54 PM   #66
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I understood what you were saying Giancarlo that basically if he wasn't so paranoid and listened to his advisors once and a while the Russians would not have sufferd so many casuallties. I no you think I'm stupid but I really aren't.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:56 PM   #67
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I understood what you were saying Giancarlo that basically if he wasn't so paranoid and listened to his advisors once and a while the Russians would not have sufferd so many casuallties. I no you think I'm stupid but I really aren't.
You are just ignoring my point too often. If he didn't wipe out a lot of his officers he would have better people in charge.

Better officers then the wreckless Zhukhov.. the guy made a mountain load of strategic errors. But it didn't cost Russia the war thank goodness.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:56 PM   #68
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Zhukhov managed to save russia until the well know russian winter of 41-42, when germany started to feel that the tide was turning. He was the commander in chief during the battle of stalingrad. His role is undeniable in the winning of the Russian front. He might have made some mistakes, but nontheless, he was a good commander.

Yes, attacking russia under any circumstances is a bad idea, and history has proven that multiple times (not just hitler and napoleon).

Yes I agree that Stalin shouldn't have wiped out the pro-stalin officers.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:58 PM   #69
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Zhukhov made a huge amount of mistakes. He did a huge amount of errors. And I don't believe he could be credited for anything other then directing human wave attacks. He was not a good commander. He was just given a lot of men, made mistakes but with or without his mistakes, the Germans would of been overwhelmed by the larger numbers.
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Old 12-06-2004, 11:58 PM   #70
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So winning stalingrad was a mistake?
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