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Old 12-23-2009, 12:54 PM   #41
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Default Re: Loosing Faith?

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Originally Posted by Fanatic4Christ View Post
about abortions... It's murder... simple as that... religious or not... If you seriously can't keep it in your pants then don't have an abortion because that's what happens... It doesn't just "feel good" and it's not something that's just for pleasure... It was made for us to be able to reproduce... We are supposed to HAVE those children not kill them...
What about women who are raped?

I think most people would understand that sex isn't just for pleasure, but accidents happen - people make mistakes. Are you saying that a child should be born to a couple who don't love each other, and who probably can't afford to look after a small child? Is it really in the best interest of that small child to be brought into the world, disadvantaged from the second it becomes too late to have an abortion?

Then theres the argument is it really murder, when does it become a "human"? Straight away when its only two small microscopic cells that randomly happened to collide? Or when it starts to develop the various organs and features that make us human?
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Old 12-23-2009, 01:02 PM   #42
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You forget your following the teachings of christ, from the man made bible that is a collaboration of the religions before it. So your discriminating off of basically something that is made up.

All christians including my family just ignore the facts, you all just are ignorant to the truth i tell my family at every get together once we have a few drinks down. The bible isnt the truth, its a story made up by men, who had these secrete meetings with the so called god. Its less than 4thousands years old, were missing jesus christ life 13-30? wtf? the scriptures dont match.... Its a made up story.

You really think god would let people starve, children die everyday because they are mal nutritioned and have no food? You really think life is gods will so he is responsible for killing everyone that dies, no. We are, people with gods kill people.

I hear people everyday say oh thank god i have a job a roof over a my head blah blah. Degrading themselves and depriving themselves of self worth. Take some credit for the work you have done, sitting and praying will never do anything.

I forgot to talk about abortions, i mean who is to say they just wanted to go kill the fetus? There are women who get raped, drugged, and accidents happen pills and condoms are not 100%. If you dont have a job, or the father you want to raise this child into poverty? please dont act like its just murder, preventing a poverty struck and family depraved life is better than putting an innocent child through that.

Children who are raised in poverty or missing parents are the most likely to not succeed in life, i grew up the same way and it was hard, faith doesnt put food on the table trust me.

If people simply disregarded the whole afterlife hypothesis which is bs, we would have people living life the way they are supposed to be living it. Enjoying everyday and not coasting along thinking hey ill be in heaven when i die this lifes just temporary. No one can prove an afterlife so you might as well make the best of this one. This is all we have.

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What about women who are raped?

I think most people would understand that sex isn't just for pleasure, but accidents happen - people make mistakes. Are you saying that a child should be born to a couple who don't love each other, and who probably can't afford to look after a small child? Is it really in the best interest of that small child to be brought into the world, disadvantaged from the second it becomes too late to have an abortion?

Then theres the argument is it really murder, when does it become a "human"? Straight away when its only two small microscopic cells that randomly happened to collide? Or when it starts to develop the various organs and features that make us human?
Damn you beat me as i was editing my reply ! lol

If we are talking murder of cells what about humans killing animals? We are all murders, and all atheists, some of us just take our atheist life one god further.
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Old 12-23-2009, 01:32 PM   #43
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Default Re: Losing Faith?

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You forget your following the teachings of christ, from the man made bible that is a collaboration of the religions before it.
Sources to back this up please? I have heard of such theories that seem to fit on a very twisted and loose level, yes. If you delved down and actually studied the facts and really got into the nitty gritty of the religions, you'd find that really isn't true. Most athiests I talk to don't even take that line because there simply isn't the evidence there to back it up.

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The bible isnt the truth, its a story made up by men, who had these secrete meetings with the so called god. Its less than 4thousands years old, were missing jesus christ life 13-30? wtf? the scriptures dont match.... Its a made up story.
Afraid you'll have to elaborate on that point, and you'll also have to be far clearer in what you're trying to state (preferably with proper spelling and grammar, I genuinely haven't a clue what you mean there.)

Quote:
You really think god would let people starve, children die everyday because they are mal nutritioned and have no food? You really think life is gods will so he is responsible for killing everyone that dies, no. We are, people with gods kill people.
It still amazes me the number of people that assume Christians live in a nice little bubble where we block all evil out from the world, pretend it doesn't go on and everything's just nice and airy fairy. True there may be a few around like that, but out of all the Christians I know (a LOT) none of them take that line. Essentially what you're arguing is the age old "If God exists, why is there evil and suffering in the world?" That question has been answered time and time again - I could elaborate here but there's been many brilliant essays written on the subject. Have a Google and see what you come up with.

The abortion debate is one that I don't really want to get tied up with - it's a completely separate issue from whether God exists and since you clearly don't understand or appreciate scripture, you clearly wouldn't appreciate my views on the subject either.

For someone that's so dead set in athiesm I have to say that wasn't a particularly good argument. I'll happily debate all day with informed, well thought out points... the above though was definitely not that. If you're essentially sticking your fingers in your ears and just saying "God doesn't exist like it or not" without quoting any sources or reasons to back yourself up, that really won't get anyone anywhere. I could just as well stick my fingers in my ears and ramble on about how green monkeys live on the moon, it wouldn't mean I'm correct
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Old 12-23-2009, 01:43 PM   #44
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Default Re: Losing Faith?

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Because I for one believe that God can and does work through medicine.

I did once hear of a woman that once did just as you described. She was diagnosed in the very early stages of having breast cancer, and there was a very good chance she could have been completely cured. Instead though she refused all treatment with the line "God will cure me without any of your help." This went on for some time - and sadly it never happened. The woman in question grew very ill and subsequently died.

Why didn't God let her live? I've no idea. I don't pretend to know why he does most of the stuff he does, it's one big mystery - but at the end of the day he can see all eternity and how everything maps out. If most of you are anything like me, you have difficulty remembering the last 5 minutes accurately!

You may recall the old joke where a man was trapped in a rising flood, and got sent a boat, plane and helicopter but refused all of them saying "God will save me!" On arrival in heaven, the man asked God why he wasn't saved to be greeted with "I sent you a boat, plane and a helicopter, what more did you want?!"

Personally I believe turning down medicine for the pure reason that "God doesn't need medicine to save lives" actually falls under the category of disobedience. You are in no uncertain terms testing God when you've absolutely no reason to (something Jesus was certainly against, see Matthew 4:5-7.)

For that reason alone, no I won't just stay at home, pray and refuse medicine because "God doesn't need it" rather than taking it and getting better. Neither would I condone anyone else doing the same. In my view it's silly and disobedient.


I agree with parts of that. It reminds me of story that I think fits quiet nicely here.
It goes:

A man had a boat in the ocean and it started to sink. He had to swim and wait out in the water. He kept saying, it's okay God will save me. This is okay I will be okay.
A boat came by, seen the man, and yelled hey! Get in the boat! The man responded "no it's okay God will save me!". The boat then left.
A bigger boat came and once again they yelled out, "Hey! Get in the boat!", the man again responded "No it's okay God will save me!". The boat left.

This time a helicopter came lowered a basket and told the man to get in. The man responded "No it's okay God will save me!". After a while the helicopter left.
After days of treading water the man finally got a cramp and drowned.

When he got to heaven he said, "God! Why didn't you save me?!".
God then responded "What do you mean?! I sent two boats and a helicopter!".

The moral of the story is God works in mysterious ways, very often in plain sight.
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Old 12-23-2009, 01:44 PM   #45
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Default Re: Losing Faith?

I tried to tell you guys it was useless to argue religion...
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Old 12-23-2009, 01:46 PM   #46
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Default Re: Losing Faith?

That is your opinion and belief Chris, However my view on Christianity is completely opposite of yours. I "chose" to live my entire life according to God's will. The second I chose to walk a like according to God, Every aspect of my life changed. I wake up in the morning and go to bed having deep conversation with a God that I can not see, However I know he's as close to me as I would ever hope for. I thank God every day for the accomplishments I've made in my life, knowing he had a major "role" in them.

Keep in my what I said in the beginning of this thread. I just stated my beliefs just as you did yours, However do not come here demanding "Questions that can not be answered" because religion is mostly "by faith, not by sight".

On second thought, There is nothing left to talk about other than who's right and who's wrong.

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