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Old 12-22-2009, 03:50 PM   #31
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Default Re: Losing Faith?

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Originally Posted by cboucher View Post
I hear you berry, and like I said, I fully support people in their religious beliefs. Believe me I've had multiple discussions over the years with my mom on the subject so I know how useless it is to argue religion. I think the reason I don't buy the whole religion thing is that firstly, I've had religion crammed down my throat since birth and have seen a lot of inconsistencies, and secondly it requires a person to live their live and have every action influenced by ideas that are based purely on faith, without having a shred of corroborating evidence to support these ideas. And I'm not trying to say that religious people are any less intelligent or anything like that. You, for example, seem to be very intelligent and articulate to me. I just don't buy it, pure and simple. But hey, I could be an idiot. That's always a possibility...
I can't prove darwins theories,
I can't prove einstiens theories,
I can't prove that if you dope silicone you end up with semi conductors.

I have text books, and I can observe what I think is empirical evidence, but I don't know...
I just trust what someone I give authority to (a professor) tells me.


a religious person just says
I just trust what someone I give authority to (a pastor) tells me.

and it's difficult to entirely disprove either theory where creation is concerned
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Old 12-22-2009, 04:54 PM   #32
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Default Re: Losing Faith?

The events recorded in The Bible were events observed and interpreted by men. Therefore they are subject to what the person reporting the event personal beliefs are. How well educated or just street smart so to speak. But seeing how in most cases, as I see it, this sadly was not the case. What they saw and what they heard then fell prey to being misinterpreted.

That is not to say that what happened didn't happen. Just that the reporter put a slant on it that blurred the facts. This is were that "leap of faith" comes in to play.

Did you know that the vast majority of scientists are of some religious persuasion? If God didn't want us to find out how things work wouldn't it stand to reason it would have been spelled out in The Bible or even the Ten Commandments, Thou shalt not have any sort of curiosity as to how things work. But thankfully it didn't work out that way and not only do we vigorously pursue how things work here on our little blue marble, but are also pursuing how the universe works and how we fit in the grand scheme of things.

We keep searching. In the meantime keep to your beliefs no matter what they are. Besides your name those are the only things you have that you can truly call your own.
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Old 12-22-2009, 07:41 PM   #33
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Default Re: Loosing Faith?

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hey i'm a independent fundamental Christian as well! haven't really heard of other ones on the internet =/
Your fundamental churches show horrible morals when it comes to things like gays and abortion? "DESPISE THEM THEY ARE GOING TO HELL". Pretty much sums up your views on them, thats pretty horrible, i grew up falling in love with a girl i found out was a jehovas witness, and she told me i couldnt meet her family or date her because the bible says not to be with bad association. to her i wasnt a witness so i was bad association, you guys consider gays and people who are pro choice as bad and sinners and going to hell. I see no good morals comming from being religious except for discrimination.

personally i feel that gays actions are unnatural but its not our choice its thiers and i could care less who you love.

My main problem with the Bible especially is that it was man made as people said before, and it came about recently, couple thousand years? There are many polythiest religions that came before the bible so i feel it loses its credibility right there. Everything in the bible comes from prior religions except for the devil and hell that came around with it.

The world is not less than 10,00 years old so the book of genisis is bleh.
I heard a joke, " all powerful, all knowing god, created the world in 6 days, but he had to rest the 7th day?"( what happend to all powerful?)

Im reading the God delusion by Richard Dawkings rightnow and his preface touches on how "

"there are no christian children or muslim children, just children with christian or muslim parents, sieze the opportunity to ram it home!"

In my opinion You have to either follow your religion 100% or dont, none of this i belive a couple things, but not those far out things. (its all far out)

Im in philosophy club at my college and we had a man come from Ved-Anta its a religion, i must say they have the best view on religion, he said why do we have to say we are this or that, why cant we agree we are all looking for god, and thats that what god dosent matter.

I asked him what about atheists, he said: "what do you believe in" i replied with myself, and he said thats all that matters, and that i would find god later, which i wont but hey i like his philosophy!

This guy made me smile, everyone else makes me angry lol

-dont want to offend anyone sorry i get into argument sometimes
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Old 12-22-2009, 09:39 PM   #34
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Default Re: Losing Faith?

I, for one have never lost faith in myself and my family, but I don't pray to a God for help, I focus my energy directly to the person that needs positivity in their lives.(no middle man necessary) Whether it be someone diagnosed with Cancer or a someone who has lost their job. I am one who feels that we are our own gods and we have to make our own decisions as to how our lives will progress.
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Old 12-22-2009, 09:44 PM   #35
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Default Re: Losing Faith?

Let me ask everyone here question.

If you had a family member who was dying of a disease, why don't you just pray to "god" to make them better? Why go to a hospital and get medicine?

When someone comes out of a hospital, why does no one thank science? I'm sure medicine will be more effective than praying for a cure.
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Old 12-22-2009, 10:10 PM   #36
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Default Re: Losing Faith?

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Originally Posted by rohan23 View Post
When someone comes out of a hospital, why does no one thank science? I'm sure medicine will be more effective than praying for a cure.
I would have to say that that is not always true. Even if nothing (that you know of) comes out of it, does it really hurt? (rhetorical question)
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Old 12-22-2009, 10:14 PM   #37
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Default Re: Losing Faith?

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Originally Posted by rohan23 View Post
Let me ask everyone here question.

If you had a family member who was dying of a disease, why don't you just pray to "god" to make them better? Why go to a hospital and get medicine?

When someone comes out of a hospital, why does no one thank science? I'm sure medicine will be more effective than praying for a cure.
Well, what you don't see is that my pastor is ALWAYS going to the hospital to pray over families in need.
I go to the hospital because it's the place we go to get better here on earth. If we could get to heaven to get help we would.

You also have to remember that God doesn't always answer our prayers with "yes".
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:17 AM   #38
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Default Re: Loosing Faith?

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Originally Posted by chrisdafrizz View Post
Your fundamental churches show horrible morals when it comes to things like gays and abortion? "DESPISE THEM THEY ARE GOING TO HELL".
I don't agree with it. but it says that in the bible.

the whole religion is based on the teachings of Christ, as recorded in the bible, and it clearly says that being gay is bad...

that's why I can't understand there being gay priests.
it clearly says in the bible that gays are bad, so how does a gay person get to be a preist?

that's rather like having a rabbi who goes out to work as a builder on a Saturday morning and stops off for a bacon sandwich on the way.

Technically nothing wrong with it, thousands of people do it, but none of them are rabbis, because it'd be wrong for a Jewish person to eat an 'unclean' meat like bacon and wrong for a Jewish person to work on a Saturday.
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Old 12-23-2009, 05:21 AM   #39
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Default Re: Losing Faith?

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If you had a family member who was dying of a disease, why don't you just pray to "god" to make them better? Why go to a hospital and get medicine?

When someone comes out of a hospital, why does no one thank science? I'm sure medicine will be more effective than praying for a cure.
Because I for one believe that God can and does work through medicine.

I did once hear of a woman that once did just as you described. She was diagnosed in the very early stages of having breast cancer, and there was a very good chance she could have been completely cured. Instead though she refused all treatment with the line "God will cure me without any of your help." This went on for some time - and sadly it never happened. The woman in question grew very ill and subsequently died.

Why didn't God let her live? I've no idea. I don't pretend to know why he does most of the stuff he does, it's one big mystery - but at the end of the day he can see all eternity and how everything maps out. If most of you are anything like me, you have difficulty remembering the last 5 minutes accurately!

You may recall the old joke where a man was trapped in a rising flood, and got sent a boat, plane and helicopter but refused all of them saying "God will save me!" On arrival in heaven, the man asked God why he wasn't saved to be greeted with "I sent you a boat, plane and a helicopter, what more did you want?!"

Personally I believe turning down medicine for the pure reason that "God doesn't need medicine to save lives" actually falls under the category of disobedience. You are in no uncertain terms testing God when you've absolutely no reason to (something Jesus was certainly against, see Matthew 4:5-7.)

For that reason alone, no I won't just stay at home, pray and refuse medicine because "God doesn't need it" rather than taking it and getting better. Neither would I condone anyone else doing the same. In my view it's silly and disobedient.
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:02 PM   #40
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Default Re: Loosing Faith?

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Originally Posted by chrisdafrizz View Post
Your fundamental churches show horrible morals when it comes to things like gays and abortion? "DESPISE THEM THEY ARE GOING TO HELL". Pretty much sums up your views on them, thats pretty horrible, i grew up falling in love with a girl i found out was a jehovas witness, and she told me i couldnt meet her family or date her because the bible says not to be with bad association. to her i wasnt a witness so i was bad association, you guys consider gays and people who are pro choice as bad and sinners and going to hell. I see no good morals comming from being religious except for discrimination.

personally i feel that gays actions are unnatural but its not our choice its thiers and i could care less who you love.
ok, first of all, most importantly, before not associating with them you have to at least try to save them from eternal damnation in hell... I disagree with shunning everybody down because they are gay so they automatically can't change or anything... there has been plenty who have changed and i'm going to keep the mindset that there's a chance for me to keep someone from going to hell..

about abortions... It's murder... simple as that... religious or not... If you seriously can't keep it in your pants then don't have an abortion because that's what happens... It doesn't just "feel good" and it's not something that's just for pleasure... It was made for us to be able to reproduce... We are supposed to HAVE those children not kill them...


Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan23 View Post
Let me ask everyone here question.

If you had a family member who was dying of a disease, why don't you just pray to "god" to make them better? Why go to a hospital and get medicine?

When someone comes out of a hospital, why does no one thank science? I'm sure medicine will be more effective than praying for a cure.
You want to know why? you have to have 100% faith that God is GOING to heal them and still if not, it's their time to go... You can't just pray to God and expect to get stuff... You have to be right with him...

Quote:
Originally Posted by root View Post
I don't agree with it. but it says that in the bible.

the whole religion is based on the teachings of Christ, as recorded in the bible, and it clearly says that being gay is bad...

that's why I can't understand there being gay priests.
it clearly says in the bible that gays are bad, so how does a gay person get to be a preist?
because they're 'wolves in sheep's clothing'


They are false teachers and will be punished far harsher than anybody can even imagine... You can't expect to not atleast try to change and if you really have a desire to go to heaven you will stop being gay and do your best to stop all the sinning in your life.... simple as that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by root View Post
I have text books, and I can observe what I think is empirical evidence, but I don't know...
I just trust what someone I give authority to (a professor) tells me.


a religious person just says
I just trust what someone I give authority to (a pastor) tells me.
If you believe everything that a pastor tell's you you'd be a fool... There is a bunch of false teachers and you need to check it for yourself in the bible... If a pastor tell's you something is wrong and you disagree or never heard it, question it in the bible... tell him to show you where... if he can't show you where then he's a false teacher aka a wolf in sheep clothing
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