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Old 12-29-2011, 05:40 PM   #41
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Default Re: Kim Jong-Il Dead

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Originally Posted by JOHN BULL View Post
Nice comment Darky, but I presume you mean the US police, since the UK Boy Scouts don`t have guns, just a stick and a liking to avoid trouble at all costs.
I take it you haven't been to st Jame's park recently, they have fully automatic weapons there.

(funny you'd have thought what with there being a permanent army presence there the police wouldn't need guns, but it turns out they apparently do.)

Quote:
Your statement " but the ideas/design ideas were borrowed from the exiled Nazi scientists that they extradited to the US after the war." cannot be true since the bombs were dropped BEFORE the war ended. So the expertise of extradited Nazi scientists does not apply.
it was german scientists that sent man to the moon though.

seriously, read about von braun.
nazi scientist
war criminal
smuggled out of the country
developed saturn v rockets
ended up working in kids TV... how weird is that.



on the point of the vietnam war...
I don't think that it was the bad side of war (e.g. people die) -that's expected after all
it was the atrocities of war, who families being killed, children being killed people being raped before being killed.

it's still the case that there are some bad soldiers though.
for example there are videos of guys in the army gunning down civilians whilst celebrating.
-it's that stuff that people tend not to like... that's the stuff that looses support for the troops. -that and when it's patently obvious that the troops are out meddling, and not protecting homeland security at all!


so far as supermans statement that the US army is the best, (of the best of the best), so why so much blue one blue? why the civilian killing? why the air strikes on allies? why the astonishingly high death count?
or is it just the case that some are the best, and some are bad? (I'm reasonably certain that in any given army in the world you will find someone who is "the best" at one particular facet of war. for example, if betting on who will be able to sneak into your tent in the night and slit your throat without even disturbing the guy next to you I'd bet on a Gurkha before anyone else in the world. If I wanted a bridge building, German army engineers are probably the best in the world.



John bull, I'm finding your casual racist undertones disturbing (people in Korea are not dirty third world savages, nor are the Vietnamese.)
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Old 12-29-2011, 06:03 PM   #42
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Default Re: Kim Jong-Il Dead

actually it might have been during the war they captured them, I'm not sure. There's a massive 1940s nuclear fusion research bunker under a tiny village in remote German countryside.

German nuclear energy project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 12-29-2011, 08:27 PM   #43
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@Root

There really is no need for patronizing and rather tiresome remarks like this :-

"John bull, I'm finding your casual racist undertones disturbing (people in Korea are not dirty third world savages, nor are the Vietnamese.)"

When all we are trying to do is talk about a subject in an adult manner and quoting historical facts.

You are welcome to find any undertones you wish, be my guest. I never said the people of Korea or Vietnam were "dirty third world savages", this is your false positive expression.

It is rather common to be called "racist" by people who do not understand a single thing that is being discussed, but only focus on any criticism of a race or people and immediately scream RACIST !

It is usually a means of admitting argumentative and intellectual defeat.

But look on the bright side - the US grunts who fought in Korea and Vietnam may just agree with your terminology of "dirty third world savages". So you call all these brave US soldiers RACIST ? They sure were and felt very strongly about it..

Well I may just agree with you on that point, since the US killed around 3 million Koreans and well over 1.1 million North Vietnamese, we won`t argue figures as it was a hell of a lot.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:59 PM   #44
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Default Re: Kim Jong-Il Dead

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Originally Posted by JOHN BULL View Post
@Root
It is rather common to be called "racist" by people who do not understand a single thing that is being discussed, but only focus on any criticism of a race or people and immediately scream RACIST !

It is usually a means of admitting argumentative and intellectual defeat.


Defeating root in an intellectual debate would be about as easy as performing spinal reconstruction with a hammer, two nails and pair of fresh pressed khaki's. It can't be done.

---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 PM ----------

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The French Foreign Legion could make your super infantry and so called Special Forces crap their pants by just staring at them.
My standard issue green socks have more combat experience than the entire french population... Do any of your special forces even have combat experience or does it consist entirely of waving white flags?

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Old 12-30-2011, 01:09 AM   #45
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Default Re: Kim Jong-Il Dead

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Originally Posted by JOHN BULL View Post
@Root

There really is no need for patronizing and rather tiresome remarks like this :-

"John bull, I'm finding your casual racist undertones disturbing (people in Korea are not dirty third world savages, nor are the Vietnamese.)"

When all we are trying to do is talk about a subject in an adult manner and quoting historical facts.

You are welcome to find any undertones you wish, be my guest. I never said the people of Korea or Vietnam were "dirty third world savages", this is your false positive expression.

It is rather common to be called "racist" by people who do not understand a single thing that is being discussed, but only focus on any criticism of a race or people and immediately scream RACIST !

It is usually a means of admitting argumentative and intellectual defeat.

But look on the bright side - the US grunts who fought in Korea and Vietnam may just agree with your terminology of "dirty third world savages". So you call all these brave US soldiers RACIST ? They sure were and felt very strongly about it..

Well I may just agree with you on that point, since the US killed around 3 million Koreans and well over 1.1 million North Vietnamese, we won`t argue figures as it was a hell of a lot.
You call the US troops grunts... you were a paratrooper were you not?...
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Old 12-30-2011, 04:08 AM   #46
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Default Re: Kim Jong-Il Dead

"ask yourself; what would the French do?"

Retreat, probably.
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Old 12-30-2011, 05:38 AM   #47
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Quote:
You are welcome to find any undertones you wish, be my guest. I never said the people of Korea or Vietnam were "dirty third world savages", this is your false positive expression.

But look on the bright side - the US grunts who fought in Korea and Vietnam may just agree with your terminology of "dirty third world savages". So you call all these brave US soldiers RACIST ? They sure were and felt very strongly about it..
well, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

I didn't call you a racist, I said that your post had disturbing racist undertones.
what do you think the undertones of saying that America were driven out of Vietnam by guys on bicycles. (yeah, lol cause that's what the far east is famous for! they can't afford cars!)

You're either being intentionally critical of the Vietnamese and playing them down as some kind of third world nation to increase the spite of your post against the US army, or you genuinely think that about the Vietnamese (that they are only poor farmers on bikes), or are stupid. I don't know or care which.

The fact is that they weren't just poor people on bicycles, they were a very well trained army/militia, with immediate and in depth knowledge of their surroundings and geography, they were well armed.
They were able to move around their jungles (their as in the jungles of their country) quickly and easily, and silently.
they knew instinctively about the local flora and fauna, what was safe to eat and what wasn't, they knew that cooking on charcoal would be quick and easy, and virtually undetectable due to the limited amount of smoke.

they knew, instinctively, what it took the Americans, years to figure out. even trying to cook food gave away positions of troops before they figured out how to make the smokeless cookers that the enemy were using.

and that is the threat that North Korea poses, if you bring a fight to someone else's country, and you are unfamiliar with the terrain/flora/fauna/seasons/weather, then you are at an immediate disadvantage.


Quote:
It is rather common to be called "racist" by people who do not understand a single thing that is being discussed, but only focus on any criticism of a race or people and immediately scream RACIST !
i'd like to believe that I'm actually showing a better understanding that you, Mr "landmas is the most important things, but little countries can still kick the most well funded military ass..." at least I've been consistent in what I've said.
far from me not understanding the subject matter, the point is that race has nothing to do with military strength, I don't understand why you've bought it into the conversation, if not to say "look inferior race beats US army"?
-please don't take the time to enlighten me, I don't want the thread to deviate too much from the original subject, (That a guy has died)

Quote:
It is usually a means of admitting argumentative and intellectual defeat.
Admitting defeat, you have a strange idea of how discussions work, you don't admit defeat, you concede that you were wrong, or misinformed and you learn something... (or at least that's what I do during discussions/exchanges of ideas)

the warning works like this.
I am a member here, I talk to you and with you as a member. I don't consider myself more knowledgeable than anyone else on the facts of the Vietnam war, indeed aside from having seen Forest Gump or Full Metal Jacket I've got no experience at all, because, I wasn't even alive, and whilst I have a friend who's father did actually fight there, he doesn't talk about it. -a lot of people involved in that war don't talk about it, because it was not a good time for anyone. as with most wars.

given that you appear to be older than I am, and was possibly alive at the time, you may be able to remember stuff that I can only read about. it may be that you are more knowledgeable that I am, and indeed I could learn something from you about this war.

so in this conversation, as with pretty much all of the conversations, I consider myself equal to other members,
but
you'll also see "site team" under my user name, that means when I say, "I'm starting to find your posting style disturbing", that you can take it as a warning that you need to change. I didn't just call you a racist, I said that there were undertones of that in your post. it was a friendly way of asking you to think about what you're writing before pressing submit.
as a moderator here, it's a part of "the job" to not let conversations descend into what this thread appears to fast be becoming. (a huge mess of misguided patriotism and xenophobia)
(actually xenophobic would have been a better word to use than racist, but it was late, I was tired and not feeling particularly lexical)

Now that I've better described what I meant, I hope you'll understand, perhaps try re-reading what you've written and you might see the same as what I saw in it, maybe not. in any case, it's not open for discussion... it's just a message, think about what you're saying.

and now to get back on topic...
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
My standard issue green socks have more combat experience than the entire french population... Do any of your special forces even have combat experience or does it consist entirely of waving white flags?
that may be so, but the French foreign legion is called that because, whilst they fight on behalf of France, they are not French.

Not sure I get the part about waving white flags... (I understand it's a joke aimed at the French, but John Bull is British?)
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:29 AM   #48
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Default Re: Kim Jong-Il Dead

You're all missing the most important and obvious thing in this debate.


We've lost the world's best golfer!

Golf world mourns Kim Jong-il - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
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Old 12-31-2011, 04:18 AM   #49
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You call the US troops grunts... you were a paratrooper were you not?...
Well, if you have had military experience I will remind you and if you have not I will tell you what a "grunt" is.

In military jargon, a "grunt" is one of the thousands of rank and file of ordinary footsloggers that get all the dirty jobs to do at the sharp end of military operations. Usually otherwise called the PBI = Poor bloody infantry.
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Old 12-31-2011, 06:27 AM   #50
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@ ROOT, post 46.

Post 43 seems to be an attempt to elevate you into the position of Guru Extraordinaire by one of your devoted cult fan club and casts aspersions on my ability to handle a simple literary debate. My opinion ? Not printable. Making direct slurs at members is not my style and is the privilege of the playground. Perhaps you will use your authority to chastise this person for being unnecessarily abusive.

But ROOT your post 46 is both highly commendable and respectful. I really appreciate your entire text and the superb, tolerant, delicate and knowledgeable way in which you decided to handle this inflammatory issue. It is diplomatic, personally impressive and written with genuine understanding of my own views and experience, all of which is gratefully and respectfully received. YES Root, I thank you so much.

I obviously do not agree with everything you say, but why should I ? After all it is an issue of difference of opinions and what would life be like if we all thought the same ? I could answer that, but had better not.

You say you are a distinguished member of the "Site Team" with the power of life and death, rather like Emperor Nero, thumbs up we live, thumbs down we die. Well bully for you.

I do not wish to be unworthy of your position in life or obvious educational prestige or incur your wrath, but I simply could not give a toss. I am a free intelligent and highly educated qualified thinker and have never let authority steam-roller me into submission. OK, at times I feel like Davy Crockett at the Alamo, but decide to die with honour, prestige and dignity, rather than become a human robot or Lemming.

To shoot one`s adversaries in order to achieve success, is not the path of democracy, more in line with Dictators philosophy. Change my way of thinking and expression ? Not on your Nelly Root. I have survived many battles in my life and I am still here punching. I do not go out to offend, but if people do not like what I say, then they can lump it. The answer ? Don`t cry and run to Momma, use your intellectual ability to contest the problem.

SUGGESTION :-

As this thread has been successfully converted from a matter of that little irrelevant and despicable despot Kim Jong Plonk`s death to the military ability of just about everybody, it has exceeded the limits of "Off Topic" and it`s "Sell by date".

Would you please exert your divine powers invested in you as a member of the "Site Team" to KILL this thread as it is serving no useful purpose whatsoever.


Finally, I sincerely wish you all a very :-

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