Kim Jong-Il Dead

[John Bull]

I was Marine Corps infantry, the 'special forces of America's frontline infantry.'

Of course everything you say is logical and one cannot argue at all with any of it.

Firstly, you were in the USMC, well I was in the "Red Devils" the British Parachute Regiment and YES winning membership of these exclusive clubs is damned tough. But so what ? As I pointed out, we are not talking of conventional warfare, a Nuke conflict is another ball game and numbers or Special Forces don`t count.

I still maintain that North Korea plus China is a poor man`s combination compared with the staggering might of Russia in their glory years. They almost equalled but not quite the might and response capabilities of the USA in every respect. Not perhaps as reliable, but good enough.

All Korea has is a very poor sparkler compared to the huge Western stock of big fireworks and delivery systems. China ? They have not much better.

One single US nuclear submarine lurking off the coast of China could decimate the entire country`s military capability and vital collateral within less than 10 minutes. A modern nuclear submarine carries enough megaton warheads to destroy the entire Planet - a piece of it like China is no problem. END GAME.

North Korea - The mouse that roars :-

 

[iPwn]

Of course everything you say is logical and one cannot argue at all with any of it.

There goes my plugin again...

I'll agree to disagree here and politely excuse myself from the debate.

 

[~Darkseeker~]

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

 

[superman22x]

No armies have soldiers trained as well as the US army. Our infantry are about as good as most countries special forces. With that said, one Nuke can do a LOT of damage...

Here's US vs Russia:

 

[root]

Exhibit A

Exhibit B

your point being what exactly?
that US troops can wear no trousers and still kill people.

Do you even know why the north Korean army goose step?

It is the hardest march to actually do, it's not a natural movement, it's difficult for a person to do, even harder for a regiment to do. all the same way all in time.

when you see all those battalions of troops marching like that it's not meant to make you laugh, it's meant to make you realise how hard they train their troops, they are drilled, drilled and then drilled again. when you come across that army in real life you're going to find out that they absolutely "know" what they are doing, it'll have been drilled into them.

all those pictures show is a disciplined army, and any army that dicks around with no trousers on taking pictures on camera phones...

I doubt very much that the pictures are actually representative of either army.

No armies have soldiers trained as well as the US army. Our infantry are about as good as most countries special forces.

With respect, I disagree...
over the past ten years in Iraq and Afghanistan there has been an awful lot of American lead "blue one blue" action (not only American led though). without wanting to start too much of an argument, I'd think that being able to distinguish your own people would be the most basic requirement. I'd hardly call that the best trained in the world, or as good/better as everyone else's special forces...
Sure maybe you have a brutal "breaking" regiment of training, maybe that does help to create good troops, but I wouldn't say the best in the world, there don't appear to be any facts supporting that argument.


To be honest, I think you all need to start actually watching, (a) more than one news station/network so that you can get more than one bias on your news, and then by comparing the articles you can work out what the truth is.
(b) stop watching that god awful training the troops reality TV, what they are doing there is showing off for the cameras. that does not signify that they are the best in the world at all. (c) stop believing what you see in Hollywood films.

by which I mean
In Hollywood films:
1, the American armies are the best bar none (funnily enough in British films the British are the best, in French films the French are the best, I wonder who is portrayed as the best in N.Korean films?)

2, in Hollywood films north Koreans are always idiots. they are apparently the guys who stand still or who run away in the wrong direction whilst Matt Daemon is picking them off one by one. -it's not like this in real life.


American led fiction like this and news bias is not something that you should base your opinion on.

As for reasons as to why these biases exist...
well news bias is fairly obvious, it exists to suit political agendas and ideals.
Hollywood bias is also fairly self explanatory, if a film depicted Americas troops as idiots it's not going to do very well is it, in fact I wouldn't be surprised if some "patriot" decided that they should send the studios/director threatening letters.
another reason for Hollywood bias is time, it suits nicely that in 90 minutes there is just enough time for [action hero] to go in kick some ass, kill some people diffuse a bomb and get home in time for tea...
in reality it doesn't work like that.
but it's be a pretty boring film that was six full months of diplomacy, followed by another year of bloody fighting showing the actual realities of war, (even using the existing time scales of films where a year can happen inside of ten minutes) that'd still be a long, boring and demoralising film.

you'll never guess what, real spies aren't like James Bond either...

 

[John Bull]

No armies have soldiers trained as well as the US army. Our infantry are about as good as most countries special forces.

Hey Superman, that is one hell of a misguided patriotic mega statement, but of course of you are American and you are brainwashed to believe it, just like the North Koreans believe their indoctrinated rubbish.

If you really believe that utter crap you just wrote, how do you account for these great superhuman US grunts being run out of Vietnam like scared rabbits by an organised rabble of Vietnamese on bicycles ?

Your wonderful country never even recognised the poor Vietnam vets when they came home and almost disowned the Vietnam memorial wall of the fallen. Why ? Because the US Government were ashamed to admit their humiliating panic stricken retreat from Vietnam forced on them by a load of Vietnamese.

Just relish in the historic fact that the only defeat that America has ever had is at the hands of a load of peasants on bicycles.

And all that was achieved against the massive arsenal of the great US extensive armoury, which threw everything they had short of Nukes at the North Vietnamese, even exceeding the total explosive content of WW2.

Come off it Superman - your guys are no better than anybody else's, probably worse, but they just think they are. The French Foreign Legion could make your super infantry and so called Special Forces crap their pants by just staring at them.

 

[~Darkseeker~]

I think the American military are much like you're Police forces

high school bullies with a gun.


also, the first atom bomb was DEVELOPED by allied forces in the Manhattan project, but the ideas/design ideas were borrowed from the exiled Nazi scientists that they extradited to the US after the war.

and if Russia wanted to, they could wipe every country off of the face of the earth with the push of a button, as could the US.

slightly unnerving to think then, two world superpowers run by a gang of malicious bullies with that kind of power.

 

[John Bull]

I think the American military are much like you're Police forces

high school bullies with a gun.


also, the first atom bomb was DEVELOPED by allied forces in the Manhattan project, but the ideas/design ideas were borrowed from the exiled Nazi scientists that they extradited to the US after the war.

and if Russia wanted to, they could wipe every country off of the face of the earth with the push of a button, as could the US.

slightly unnerving to think then, two world superpowers run by a gang of malicious bullies with that kind of power.

Nice comment Darky, but I presume you mean the US police, since the UK Boy Scouts don`t have guns, just a stick and a liking to avoid trouble at all costs.

Also, the first Atomic bombs designed and produced under the Manhattan Project with Robert Oppenheimer as project leader from start to finish were an entirely American in-house miracle.

Your statement " but the ideas/design ideas were borrowed from the exiled Nazi scientists that they extradited to the US after the war." cannot be true since the bombs were dropped BEFORE the war ended. So the expertise of extradited Nazi scientists does not apply.

The Nazi super brains were only tapped way AFTER the war when ardent Nazi`s and war criminals were given free pardons in order to develop just about everything for the Americans.

Germany surrendered in May 1945 and Japan in August 1945. Captured German brains would not even have found a US flat in just over 2 months let alone help with any atomic fission stuff.

 

[iPwn]

The place only occupies 120,540 km² and most of that is mountains. It ranks 99th in the worlds listing of countries by land area. If you flew over it and blinked, you would miss it. - what on Earth is all the fuss about ? Take out the colossal area occupied by mountains, valleys and water - you have almost nothing left.

If you really believe that utter crap you just wrote, how do you account for these great superhuman US grunts being run out of Vietnam like scared rabbits by an organised rabble of Vietnamese on bicycles ?

You do see the glaring contradiction in logic here, right?

Your wonderful country never even recognised the poor Vietnam vets when they came home and almost disowned the Vietnam memorial wall of the fallen. Why ? Because the US Government were ashamed to admit their humiliating panic stricken retreat from Vietnam forced on them by a load of Vietnamese.

False. Vietnam veterans were never really recognized because the atrocities of war became so public during this war. There was absolutely no support from our civilian population because our population saw exactly how disgusting and vile war can be, and they wrongly blamed our military.
For some reason, after we triumphed with shining colors defeating the ever so evil Nazi's in WW2, the government made a bad assumption. That assumption was, they could create an enemy, manufacture a threat to the population and justify anything they did thereafter. The United States may or may not have been attacked on Aug. 2, 1964. It's now fact though, that the engagement on Aug. 4, 1964 never actually took place. In fact, we 'thought we saw something' so we just starting sinking N. Vietnamese boats. It was because of these two 'unprovoked attacks' that we went to war with N. Vietnam. So you have the manufactured threat, and now they wanted to document their victories as part of an indoctrination process I would assume. This backfired tremendously and instead of the Government and intelligence agencies taking the rap, our Military service men and women did. The Government manufactured this threat and then forced young children into Military service and in harms way and then did nothing in support of those whom they directly affected. Soldiers were spit on, called baby-killers, etc. Not because the Government got the crap beat out of them, but because they tried to publicize war. War, by it's very nature, it a disgusting and atrocious thing.
After the War, there was still no support for those who fought it. Politicians are not going to support something that the population base doesn't, that's just bad for re-election numbers. That's why there's no support for our Vietnam veterans. Not because we lost, because of the horrible stories that came out of Vietnam, resulting in the targeting of those who were forced to participate in this conflict, and our politicians absolute lack of support for those they sent into this conflict.

 

[superman22x]

Our country hated the Vietnam war and did not support it one bit. I stand by what I said because it's true. They weren't trained for the Jungles like the locals. And I'm talking about our modern soldiers anyway.