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Old 06-07-2012, 10:59 PM   #11
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Default Re: It's illegal because...

the thing is as things are progressing with the smoking ban and now the ban on the shop displays of tobacco in certain sized stores I think give it a while longer and an out and out ban on cigarettes wouldnt cause that much uproad .
Don't forget though with the history of cannabis its been legal for a lot longer time than it has been legal . the criminalization of it is only a recent thing(relatively) .
However I do agree that the message we would send out is that its acceptable/ safe and might encourage more young people to try it .

The whole debate poses interesting questions about the sovereignty of the individual and free choice and where we should pose the limit to free choice . In my view I think we should certainly limit peoples free choice to smoke that is something that should be banned in my view . alcohol is a funny one when it comes to free choice cos I dont see much wrong with having a beer with a meal or something like that but I dont think that it is socially acceptable to go out binge drinking so there should also be some restriction on the ability to binge drink (interestingly current licensing laws make it an offense to serve someone who you believe is too intoxicated anyway however cleearly this is seldom enforced).
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Old 06-08-2012, 12:34 AM   #12
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Default Re: It's illegal because...

Quote:
Originally Posted by muz View Post
The fact is that as we already see people can grow cannabis at home with relative ease . if people could grow enough at home for personal consumption then the government really would be at odds trying to figure out an effective way to tax this .
Very untrue this statement, they can legalise cannabis stop you from growing it and charge tax on the sales of cannabis.

Grow tobacco on your own premises or farms and see what the authorities do to you, you need a license to do this and be regulated...... One big fine or imprisonment.....

The governments would not allow you to grow your own..... They are very smart and know how to tax you
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: It's illegal because...

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whilst on the face of It I am of the belief that the use of marijuana should be de-criminalised for various reasons due to my future possible career plans (namely joining the police) and current jobs I am applying for requiring drugs tests it is not something I have direct experience with . Although that being said another argument I am more in favor of is banning alcohol and tobacco altogether because i seldom drink anymore and to be honest never consuming another alcoholic drink in my life would not be the end of the world for me . and smoking is something I never have had any interest in .
One problem I do have with the current consumption of marijuana is that you are actually funding gangs of organized criminals who engage in other illegal activities such as people smuggling and sex trafficking which is obviously a problem .That being said this is not an argument against de criminalizing as that issue could be dealt with by effective decriminalization .

Whilst I haven't really studied it and dont really know how reasonable the argument is . What would you make of the argument that marijuana could be a gateway drug leading to worse drugs .
I think that the government "nannies" the population too much. As long as the information about the side-effects of what people are doing/are considering doing is publicised, I think that for a lot of things, people should be allowed to make their own mind up.
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:44 PM   #14
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Very untrue this statement, they can legalise cannabis stop you from growing it and charge tax on the sales of cannabis.

Grow tobacco on your own premises or farms and see what the authorities do to you, you need a license to do this and be regulated...... One big fine or imprisonment.....

The governments would not allow you to grow your own..... They are very smart and know how to tax you
in what way is it untrue ?
sure they could introduce a law to make growing cannabis illegal just like it is currently illegal to smoke or grow cannabis in your own home . However as you see with the huge amount of people who smoke cannabis at home laws are often ignored . And a law is only as strong as the possibility and efforts of enforcement

There are just not enough resources (police or otherwise)to find every single individual who would be growing cannabis in their own home . The fact that the police currently struggle with closing down all of the "industrial" sized cannabis farms . Those are the farms that would be consuming enormous amounts of electricity and producing a massive amount of heat .and producing thousands of pounds worth of cannabis . They do of course succeed in shutting down some of these farms . whilst its also illegal to bring cannabis in the country clearly the current supply of cannabis comes from a mixture of the two sources grown and smuggled .
clearly mechanisms for enforcing the laws against growing and smoking cannabis are not working . What makes you think if the government started taxing it they would be any more effective at enforcing these laws .

In my view the reverse would in fact happen and more people would grow it at home because currently the problem of cannabis distribution and production is a criminal justice problem so is handled by the police . If you made it into a taxable problem you would then make enforcement on bans against home growing a customs and excise problem and the funding for their enforcement teams is a lot less and their resources are much more thinly spread thus meaning that more people would get away with growing cannabis at home .

In the UK you can produce legally at home your own beer or wine however having a still is illegal . However I have known of people who have created their own rudimentary still more for experimental purposes and they have produced some volume of consumable alcohol . Despite this being against uk law they faced absolutely no fine or imprisonment . The same with people who I have heard of who have grown small amounts of cannabis in their airing cupboard or loft for personal consumption . No fine or imprisonment despite this being a criminal offense . clearly the enforcement mechanism are not strong enough to guarantee a heavy stream of tax revenue as I said .

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I think that the government "nannies" the population too much. As long as the information about the side-effects of what people are doing/are considering doing is publicised, I think that for a lot of things, people should be allowed to make their own mind up.
Perhaps , however when its the lives of others you are effecting should the government not step in to do something , Say for example I went out and got completely wasted beyond my limits at a nightclub in the city centre and then became agressive and violent like a lot of people do when they get drunk and set about attacking someone working in a local takeaway because they werent preparing my food fast enough surely you cant just go to that fast food shop owner and say its okay the man who attacked your employee knew of the side effects and we just allowed him to make his own mind up ?
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:26 AM   #15
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Default Re: It's illegal because...

Never tired it, I don't smoke anyway, but then its use openly in Amsterdam though not legalised.
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Old 06-09-2012, 05:47 AM   #16
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in what way is it untrue ?
sure they could introduce a law to make growing cannabis illegal just like it is currently illegal to smoke or grow cannabis in your own home . However as you see with the huge amount of people who smoke cannabis at home laws are often ignored . And a law is only as strong as the possibility and efforts of enforcement

There are just not enough resources (police or otherwise)to find every single individual who would be growing cannabis in their own home . The fact that the police currently struggle with closing down all of the "industrial" sized cannabis farms . Those are the farms that would be consuming enormous amounts of electricity and producing a massive amount of heat .and producing thousands of pounds worth of cannabis . They do of course succeed in shutting down some of these farms . whilst its also illegal to bring cannabis in the country clearly the current supply of cannabis comes from a mixture of the two sources grown and smuggled .
clearly mechanisms for enforcing the laws against growing and smoking cannabis are not working . What makes you think if the government started taxing it they would be any more effective at enforcing these laws .

In my view the reverse would in fact happen and more people would grow it at home because currently the problem of cannabis distribution and production is a criminal justice problem so is handled by the police . If you made it into a taxable problem you would then make enforcement on bans against home growing a customs and excise problem and the funding for their enforcement teams is a lot less and their resources are much more thinly spread thus meaning that more people would get away with growing cannabis at home .

In the UK you can produce legally at home your own beer or wine however having a still is illegal . However I have known of people who have created their own rudimentary still more for experimental purposes and they have produced some volume of consumable alcohol . Despite this being against uk law they faced absolutely no fine or imprisonment . The same with people who I have heard of who have grown small amounts of cannabis in their airing cupboard or loft for personal consumption . No fine or imprisonment despite this being a criminal offense . clearly the enforcement mechanism are not strong enough to guarantee a heavy stream of tax revenue as I said .


Perhaps , however when its the lives of others you are effecting should the government not step in to do something , Say for example I went out and got completely wasted beyond my limits at a nightclub in the city centre and then became agressive and violent like a lot of people do when they get drunk and set about attacking someone working in a local takeaway because they werent preparing my food fast enough surely you cant just go to that fast food shop owner and say its okay the man who attacked your employee knew of the side effects and we just allowed him to make his own mind up ?
True - I guess the problem is that a lot of people in the world are idiots. Or, at least, they've not been brought up in a way that makes them consider other people.
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Old 06-11-2012, 05:58 PM   #17
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Default Re: It's illegal because...

Everything I like is either:
Illegal
Immoral
Fattening
Expensive
or
Impossible
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:09 PM   #18
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Default Re: It's illegal because...

I would like to point out at this stage, There doesnt seem to be any big issues in Holland right now.. you know, where you can walk into a cafe and order a coffee and a joint lol
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:28 AM   #19
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Default Re: It's illegal because...

for dutch citizens there doesnt seem to be a problem but I would put that down to the fact that if you where brought up in a society with a sensible attitude towards cannabis it wouldn't be something you would see the need to abuse in the way people do in this country

However the Netherlands has clearly had a problem for some time with drug tourism and has started the process of banning the sale of cannabis to foreign nationals .
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Old 06-17-2012, 07:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: It's illegal because...

Cigs do not impair your judgement. Alcohol only impairs your judgement if you have too much. Weed is not something that can be done in moderation. By that I mean every time you smoke weed, you get high. Everytime you drink you don't necessarily have to be drunk, and everytime you smoke....well you just smell like cigs. Another reason weed is illegal is because it is a gateway drug. I've never met anyone in my life that only smokes weed. Pot smokers always want something more, a better high, that's where the hardcore drugs come in. That's a whole 'nother can of worms.
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