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Old 04-07-2011, 03:22 PM   #1
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Default How involved should the government be with computers and electronics?

From another thread it was mentioned about hard drives being the biggest bottleneck in a computer system.

If it weren't hard drives then it would be something else acting as a bottleneck. It would make sense then to coordinate all components of a computer system so that there'd be no bottlenecks and the best way to do that is with government oversight
(I live in the US btw).

Aside from bottlenecks there are many ways that the government is involved. Another example is when the country went digital over a year ago (the main reason for that is to free up lower channels for government use). It was said to help sell this new system that more new, free channels would be added (true, but this is a slow process). When the country did go digital, I lost one of my channels (which was a very important one) which I might get back this year.

What do you think about government involvement?
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Old 04-07-2011, 03:59 PM   #2
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Default Re: How involved should the government be with computers and electronics?

Yes.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:26 PM   #3
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Default Re: How involved should the government be with computers and electronics?

You're kidding, right?

The best thing for advancement of computer technology is the free market. We have high-speed drives, RAID and SSD because gamers want to minimize lag. The PC gaming industry is behind most of the advancements in computer hardware over the past two decades.

Government oversight would slow advancement to a virtual standstill. Manufacturers would optimize their hardware to score well on the government test, but still run crappy in real-world applications. A Senator from state A will require certain components be included in the standard so that his constituents will remain employed, regardless of whether that component will actually advance the technology. Uninformed statesmen (which is pretty much all of them) will glom onto a technology, term or proposal and stifle innovation in favor of the latest fad in Washington.

You are correct in understanding that there will always be a bottleneck, and the industry as a whole has concentrated on opening up each bottleneck as they get to it. It's a process of evolution that can't be sped up with government oversight.
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:47 PM   #4
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Default Re: How involved should the government be with computers and electronics?

Perhaps?
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Old 04-07-2011, 07:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: How involved should the government be with computers and electronics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dngrsone View Post
You're kidding, right?

The best thing for advancement of computer technology is the free market. We have high-speed drives, RAID and SSD because gamers want to minimize lag. The PC gaming industry is behind most of the advancements in computer hardware over the past two decades.

Government oversight would slow advancement to a virtual standstill. Manufacturers would optimize their hardware to score well on the government test, but still run crappy in real-world applications. A Senator from state A will require certain components be included in the standard so that his constituents will remain employed, regardless of whether that component will actually advance the technology. Uninformed statesmen (which is pretty much all of them) will glom onto a technology, term or proposal and stifle innovation in favor of the latest fad in Washington.

You are correct in understanding that there will always be a bottleneck, and the industry as a whole has concentrated on opening up each bottleneck as they get to it. It's a process of evolution that can't be sped up with government oversight.
"The PC gaming industry is behind most of the advancements in computer hardware over the past two decades." I was given to understand the opposite was true. Interesting.

"Manufacturers would optimize their hardware to score well on the government test, but still run crappy in real-world applications." Is there a basis for this statement? Have there been similar situations in the past?
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: How involved should the government be with computers and electronics?

How would government involvement help at all? If anything it'd slow things down since companies like Seagate, WD and INtel would (just to name companies which produce hard drives of some sort) would need to go to the government and get an OK to research something newer and potentially better. Not to mention companies based outside of the controlling government not having to adhear to those standards would probably have an edge since they can just put their money where they want to.

And let's assume the worst right now and the US government goes to shutdown since it didn't pass a budget for this year when it was supposed to and they can't agree on one now. What happens to the funds for researching new technology? They end. Nothing new would come out that wasn't already set for release. It would cripple the companies. Companies like AMD, Intel, Seagate and WD have all succeded because they were smart and knew how to make good products which is what drives any part of the economy. And besides, if the gov got involved to reduce one bottleneck, another would just open up. And I don't know about you guys, but I don't want my taxes to get raised just so Uncle Sam can dictate what kind of technology is available for my personal computer.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: How involved should the government be with computers and electronics?

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Originally Posted by celegorm View Post
How would government involvement help at all? If anything it'd slow things down since companies like Seagate, WD and INtel would (just to name companies which produce hard drives of some sort) would need to go to the government and get an OK to research something newer and potentially better. Not to mention companies based outside of the controlling government not having to adhear to those standards would probably have an edge since they can just put their money where they want to.

And let's assume the worst right now and the US government goes to shutdown since it didn't pass a budget for this year when it was supposed to and they can't agree on one now. What happens to the funds for researching new technology? They end. Nothing new would come out that wasn't already set for release. It would cripple the companies. Companies like AMD, Intel, Seagate and WD have all succeded because they were smart and knew how to make good products which is what drives any part of the economy. And besides, if the gov got involved to reduce one bottleneck, another would just open up. And I don't know about you guys, but I don't want my taxes to get raised just so Uncle Sam can dictate what kind of technology is available for my personal computer.
If I follow you correctly, I didn't have in mind government acting like a dictator, but more like a counselor to encourage those industries that need encouragement whatever that may be, possibly supported by funding. If the funds from the government for research purposes did end, that wouldn't preclude the companies involved from doing their own research unless the government, somehow or another, was able able to control companies to that extent. Bottomline for me is that there are pros and cons to governmental involvement which I think a discussion is in order.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:40 PM   #8
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Default Re: How involved should the government be with computers and electronics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comp Explorer View Post
"The PC gaming industry is behind most of the advancements in computer hardware over the past two decades." I was given to understand the opposite was true. Interesting.

"Manufacturers would optimize their hardware to score well on the government test, but still run crappy in real-world applications." Is there a basis for this statement? Have there been similar situations in the past?
Video Card manufacturers have been cheating on benchmarks for years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comp Explorer View Post
If I follow you correctly, I didn't have in mind government acting like a dictator, but more like a counselor to encourage those industries that need encouragement whatever that may be, possibly supported by funding. If the funds from the government for research purposes did end, that wouldn't preclude the companies involved from doing their own research unless the government, somehow or another, was able able to control companies to that extent. Bottomline for me is that there are pros and cons to governmental involvement which I think a discussion is in order.
Coaching? Not the US government.

Let's talk about financial encouragement. About 30% of our national corn crop is predicted to go toward making ethanol; a theoretically clean renewable energy solution that actually creates more carbon dioxide emission than burning an equal amount of natural gas. Meanwhile, other renewable energy concepts are underdeveloped because all the money is going into ethanol, which is backed and bolstered by representatives and senators of the green-belt states.

Of course, since more money comes from growing ethanol corn, the supply of feed corn and food-grade corn is dwindling, leading to higher prices for products which rely on that corn (remember, corn syrup is still king when it comes to sweetening stuff).
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:45 PM   #9
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Default Re: How involved should the government be with computers and electronics?

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Originally Posted by Dngrsone View Post
Video Card manufacturers have been cheating on benchmarks for years.



Coaching? Not the US government.

Let's talk about financial encouragement. About 30% of our national corn crop is predicted to go toward making ethanol; a theoretically clean renewable energy solution that actually creates more carbon dioxide emission than burning an equal amount of natural gas. Meanwhile, other renewable energy concepts are underdeveloped because all the money is going into ethanol, which is backed and bolstered by representatives and senators of the green-belt states.

Of course, since more money comes from growing ethanol corn, the supply of feed corn and food-grade corn is dwindling, leading to higher prices for products which rely on that corn (remember, corn syrup is still king when it comes to sweetening stuff).
Corn ethanol is terrible. It takes 1.2 gallons worth to make 1 gallon. If they used switchgrass, it would be much more efficient. But farmers don't have the equipment and they still make money because of gov't money. The gov't doesn't know where to put their money properly. People don't understand half the world around them, and bitch and moan when they gov't doesn't do something right. The gov't probably knows switchgrass would be more efficient, but if they only supported that, then all the farmers who have corn harvesting equipment would complain... blah blah blah. Gov't is best off staying out of these affairs.
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:30 AM   #10
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Default Re: How involved should the government be with computers and electronics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Comp Explorer View Post
If I follow you correctly, I didn't have in mind government acting like a dictator, but more like a counselor to encourage those industries that need encouragement whatever that may be, possibly supported by funding. If the funds from the government for research purposes did end, that wouldn't preclude the companies involved from doing their own research unless the government, somehow or another, was able able to control companies to that extent. Bottomline for me is that there are pros and cons to governmental involvement which I think a discussion is in order.
I see where you are going, but the fact is that they shouldn't at all. government money for research should be going into worthwhile things...
by which I mean social research, drug research energy research... not how to get things onto a disk at a quicker speed.
even processor research (making faster more efficient processors is more deserving of government money than hdd tech)...

why do I say this?

Basically, when you talk about government projects, or real research projects you start talking about using SANs, with multiple disks, multiple spindles and much greater read write speed because the mechanical disadvantages are spread out over the number of disks... (e.g. governments have already figured out how to get around this bottle neck).

Basically, it wouldn't help governments to look at HDD tech, the only benefiters of faster disks speeds are really going to be home users, and frankly I don't want my tax money being wasted on improving your gaming rig!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dngrsone View Post
Let's talk about financial encouragement. About 30% of our national corn crop is predicted to go toward making ethanol; a theoretically clean renewable energy solution that actually creates more carbon dioxide emission than burning an equal amount of natural gas.
it doesn't create more carbon dioxide than it takes in over it's life, it's not low carbon because at the point of burning it produces less CO2 than burning petrol, it's low carbon because over the course of the life of the plant it draws in CO2 from the atmosphere, then releases similar amounts of CO2...
of course the same can be said of fossil fuels, they were plants once, just so long ago...

Quote:
Meanwhile, other renewable energy concepts are underdeveloped because all the money is going into ethanol, which is backed and bolstered by representatives and senators of the green-belt states.
which is the true failing of politics, politics is meant to work in a way where you elect people of sound character to work on behalf of a greater good for all the people, not work for the vested interests of the few...

and that's exactly where the idea of government funded hdd research falls down... I'm sure that the shareholders of Seagate would love a big fat government cheque to do research on rather than that money having to come from their profits...

Quote:
Of course, since more money comes from growing ethanol corn, the supply of feed corn and food-grade corn is dwindling, leading to higher prices for products which rely on that corn (remember, corn syrup is still king when it comes to sweetening stuff).
which is odd... you'd have thought it'd be the other way round, with a premium on food grade products, and the lesser stock going for industrial processes...
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