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Old 11-19-2014, 02:17 PM   #11
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Default Re: #HoodsOff;Anonymous is exposing members of the KKK!

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We have a rule of law in a civilised world for a reason.

If I say that you're a paedophile, and publish your home address it'd make your life hell, you may come to harm, you may even be killed.

If I tell the police that you're a paedophile, then they investigate in due course, it might not be quick enough for the liking of a lot of victims of crimes, but when the police eventually clear you, it'll be clear and obvious exactly why the rule of law and due process exists.



Just putting stuff online is dangerous, there can be cases of mistaken identity.

I have what you'd think was a very unique name,

in fact if you look at this site that uses census data to track the spread of surnames over a century

Great Britain Family Names

You'll find that my family name existed in only 1 county 130 years ago, and only exists in about 3 counties (in the same area now).

Yet someone entirely unrelated, who I have never met, and never had anything to do with:
shares the same name (first name, and surname) is around the same age and lives about 15 miles away.

With such a unique name, someone from anonymous would feel fairly confident that they had gotten the right guy, even when they actually have the wrong guy, who happens to share a very unique name, living in a small country etc as someone else.
Thats the thing. They are pulling names, phone numbers, and address's from a complete directory that the KKK uses to contact each other. At least, thats my understanding of it. If I am wrong about that, then yes, they are at fault.

Please keep in mind that I am not an advocate of everything that Anon does. I agree with some of their actions, and disagree with others.

That being said, if someone innocent gets harmed in this process, then I am going to feel very guilty for ever supporting it. So far, that has not happened. (One guy on youtube is claming that he is being falsely accused, but you can tell from his other videos that he is not the saint that he claims to be.) A very large number of people are in support of this, as it is in hopes that it will deture a war that the police cannot handle. It may not be the best way to do it, but I still stand behind the fact that the police are going to be outmatched at first. If you have ever seen a major fight go down, you know that it can take less than a minute for serious enjory to occur. A lot of people will get hurt very badly if the KKK carries out their plans. That simply cannot be allowed to happen.


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Anyone who supports this is a bit of an idiot, who hasn't thought it through.
I am pulling this one aside, as I would prefer that you not assume that I am in idiot. I have very throughly thought it through, and as stated above, it doesnt seem like they have made any clear mistakes with their attacks yet. I would also prefer not to be called an idiot if you do not mind. I am not arguing with you here, I am being civil, and only requesting the same in return.

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I can only hope that when (not if) the first time a crime is committed using these details that the people who published those details are also on trial as accessories to those crimes.
That I completely agree with. When or if something does happen to an innocent person, I am fully behind having the people responsible put up on charges.
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Old 11-20-2014, 06:58 AM   #12
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Default Re: #HoodsOff;Anonymous is exposing members of the KKK!

So you condone this form of vigilantism? that is the way I see it.
As usual it will get out of control & innocent people are caught up with it.
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Old 11-20-2014, 08:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: #HoodsOff;Anonymous is exposing members of the KKK!

Well, I am not above admitting when I am wrong, and you guys have made some excellent points that cannot be overlooked.

So in this case, I will applaud the effort, and hope that it works.
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Old 11-20-2014, 10:43 AM   #14
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Default Re: #HoodsOff;Anonymous is exposing members of the KKK!

I cannot edit my post, so if a mod wants to merge this with the one above, I have no issue with it.

I also wanted to point out that I have the best intentions in mind. When talking about these two groups, I dont agree with either of them to a point. But I must admit, that if given the chance, I would have done the exact same thing. I really cannot stand the Klan. They stand against everything that others (us for exmaple) work so hard to defend.

I really do hope that this doesnt end badly. I hope that those who deserve it, get the punishment that they deserve. As you guys have shown me, I was looking at it from a black and white point of view (no pun intended), and I should have seen it from multiple angles.

This entire thing is a massive cluster fu*k (sorry about my language if that offends anyone...), and we really cannot help but look in from the outside.

I digress, and say again that I am not above admitting when I am wrong. I still feel the way that I did before, but with a much more perspective of the situation.

Thank you all for the wonderful debate, and for teaching me something along the way.
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Old 11-20-2014, 11:32 AM   #15
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Default Re: #HoodsOff;Anonymous is exposing members of the KKK!

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Originally Posted by particleman View Post
Politics & religion, crazy subject matter. I support free speech. I dont agree with stifling speech even when I dont agree with it.
Last thing.
This statement, I will always agree with. Free speech is everyone's right.
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: #HoodsOff;Anonymous is exposing members of the KKK!

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Originally Posted by Draygoes View Post
Thats the thing. They are pulling names, phone numbers, and address's from a complete directory that the KKK uses to contact each other. At least, thats my understanding of it. If I am wrong about that, then yes, they are at fault.
That's not quite what's going on.
it's already reported that they got names wrong
Anonymous releases identity of KKK members before Ferguson verdict | Death and Taxes

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Originally Posted by Draygoes View Post
That being said, if someone innocent gets harmed in this process, then I am going to feel very guilty for ever supporting it. So far, that has not happened.
do you have any idea what it would be like for you, your family your friends, what it'd do to your neighbourhood if you were accused of being in the KKK with all your data release online as a foul racist, what it may do to your job, not only your existing job but future job prospects?

I think that what I can sum up here is that anonymous have already made mistakes, and some ones life is already ruined for it.


[QUOTE=Draygoes;12156299]
(One guy on youtube is claming that he is being falsely accused, but you can tell from his other videos that he is not the saint that he claims to be.) [quote]

you show exactly what the problem is there, you've been told he's a member of the KKK, and you judge him, even when he protests his innocence you already decided he's guilty, and you continue to spread the word that he's guilty, and even if he's not guilty he's still not a nice person.


imagine a news outlet that just names a guy as a peadophile in a news paper, it'd ruin the guys life. then even when they say that they are innocent people say, well they look like a wrong-un anyway!

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Originally Posted by Draygoes View Post
A very large number of people are in support of this, as it is in hopes that it will deture a war that the police cannot handle. It may not be the best way to do it, but I still stand behind the fact that the police are going to be outmatched at first. If you have ever seen a major fight go down, you know that it can take less than a minute for serious enjory to occur. A lot of people will get hurt very badly if the KKK carries out their plans. That simply cannot be allowed to happen.
I'm going to say this to qualify the statement that I'm making. I do not support the KKK.
however, people are already hurt, businesses have already been looted and burned, lives have been ruined by "peaceful protesters"


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Originally Posted by Draygoes View Post
I am pulling this one aside, as I would prefer that you not assume that I am in idiot. I have very throughly thought it through, and as stated above, it doesnt seem like they have made any clear mistakes with their attacks yet. I would also prefer not to be called an idiot if you do not mind. I am not arguing with you here, I am being civil, and only requesting the same in return.
Idiot
1.
Informal. an utterly foolish or senseless person:

I've detailed quite clearly why I believe people supporting this is a "bit of an idiot."

I will say again, I believe that anyone who would encourage mob rule, any one who encourages vigilantism, anyone who believes that anomymous are correct to act as a secret and unnamed judge and jury passing judgement with impunity is at least utterly foolish.

at no point in history has a self imposed and secret police been a good idea. -ever.

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That I completely agree with. When or if something does happen to an innocent person, I am fully behind having the people responsible put up on charges.
Read the dates, the article I've linked to pre-dates your post by a couple of days, anon already made the mistakes, and already named incorrect people.

But they aren't stopping, they are just pushing on...




Now don't get me wrong, I don't support the KKK, I would like to see organisations such as that taken down. - further more I'd go as far as to say that after a proper trial those with extreme and hateful views should receive the death penalty, AND the world would be better for it.

but then I also don't support anonymous.
I can't support an organisation that acts as judge jury and executioner.
I can't support an organisation that refuses to believe it can be wrong. and refuses to appologise for mistakes it has made, that has no self reflection ("like holy fuck we just accused an innocent guy of being a klansman and fucked up his life - we should stop this!") and that throws it's own supporters under the bus.
it's not that long ago that the LOIC tool was being widely used co-ordinated attacks against websites is illegal, anonymous made a tool that would directly involve it's own supporters in the attack whilst offering them no protection. -and why?
well at the time it was because Visa stopped payments to people funding wikileaks a site run by a guy who has hid inside an embassy for two years to escape trial for charges of rape...

but I'd never expect anon to consider that, the KKK are bad because they are racist, but they actively support the business interests of accused rapists -but that's to be expected right, after the whole doxxing women gamers, or hounding every woman they can find in tech because it's funny or for the lols.

frankly I'd quite like the members of anonymous to release their own names so that everyone can see what utter vile people they are, aligning themselves as a vigilante sexist organisation that supports rapists.

in other words, the core experiences of anonymous appear just as odorous as those of the KKK
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:24 PM   #17
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Default Re: #HoodsOff;Anonymous is exposing members of the KKK!

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Thank you all for the wonderful debate, and for teaching me something along the way.

It's seemed like such a long time since we've had a decent debate around here!
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Old 11-21-2014, 01:37 PM   #18
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Default Re: #HoodsOff;Anonymous is exposing members of the KKK!

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It's seemed like such a long time since we've had a decent debate around here!
We all have somthing new to learn, and in this case it was my turn.
I love good debates as they turn out information. I believe that is important to any community, no matter what.

I want to thank you for your informative post. It has made a difference in the way that I think, and will effect future decisions.

I have a deep respect for you, so no matter the issue, I am glad that you defined your version of the word "Idiot". Where I live, it is a harsh word against those who you do not like.

Thank you for your time, and I will say that it is wonderful to have a debate without conflict.
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Old 11-22-2014, 01:45 AM   #19
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Default Re: #HoodsOff;Anonymous is exposing members of the KKK!

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We all have somthing new to learn, and in this case it was my turn.
I love good debates as they turn out information. I believe that is important to any community, no matter what.
The biggest lesson you should have learned is to let the proper authorities deal with the KKK or any other criminal acts, vigilantism always turns ugly & innocent people get hurt.

Cheers.
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Old 11-22-2014, 12:37 PM   #20
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Default Re: #HoodsOff;Anonymous is exposing members of the KKK!

Agreed, although I still see that sometimes it does require intervention from the rest of us. We cannot rely on authority figures to do everything.

And same from me. I will hold up a glass to that.
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