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Old 03-20-2010, 04:42 AM   #71
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Default Re: To the Guitar People

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutant Corn View Post
^No, it isn't. You will achieve a MUCH bigger variation in tone by changing your amp than you will by changing your guitar. A Strat on a Fender Twin is going to sound more like a Les Paul on the Twin than another Strat on a Peavey 5150.


And actually, it's usually not the pickups that make a guitar sound bad...it's the pots. And even then, there's not a huge difference. Most people could not tell the difference between TS's guitar and a real Strat. The correlation between price and tone is very, very poor. What you pay for with a more expensive instrument is generally 1-build quality, 2-place of manufacture, and 3-the sticker on the headstock.

Now that's not to say there aren't some models with crappy pups...microphonic pickups, or those made with really inferior parts, can sound pretty bad. SC/Squier is usually pretty good about it though.
If that were even nearly true then.... I can't think of anything to say there.

Rest assured that you can put whatever eq you want. Use transistors or valves, add as much distortion as you want, you aren't easily going to make a fender or fender copy with single coil pickups sound like a Gibson or Gibson copy with dual coil hum bucking pickups.*
I suppose in the same way that a person can be auto tuned to the correct pitch and made to sound like a robot you can do anything you want with a soundwave pretty much. But it seems like a lot of trouble to go to. (you're not going to get that great of a sound difference just by changing amps. If yu want a fender strat to sound like a Gibson les Paul for example you'll need to do some pretty major signal processing, not just change amps).
You seem to be under the impression that all pickups are somehow equal, or only divided into good or bad,*
You're forgetting that the thickness of the coil wire, the amount of turns, the distance of the coils to the poll pieces, the material of the poll pieces, the uniformity of the winds (or some believe lack there of). The overall construction (I.e how it's set and what it's set in). Whether it's a single coil design. Or whether there are two coils of opposing polarity spaced closely to each other conneceted together such that and hum picked up in the first coil of the pick up will also be picked up in the second pickup (at rougly the same amplitude frequency and phase). Which wll mean the two noise signals are combined and the noise (hum) induced in the pickups will be reduced (the hum will be bucked) -which is why they are called hum bucking pickups, or humbuckers for short. Also the fact that they have twice the amount o winds as a normal single coil pickup usually means that they are 'hotter' and produce a louder fatter sound.*

I agree the pots used in the guitar can have an effect on the amount of noise a guitar produces (I mean hum and inteference). But I'd hardly say that it has a greater effect on the sound than the pickups. In fact I'd go as far to say that the pickups and amp are 99.9% of the sound. Whilst the pots. Grounding and cables form less than 1% together. And any noise generated from there parts really just means that you need tm fix the guitar. (switch cleaner or replace parts) these tend not to be the parts that even budget manufacturers save on though. Even a quality pot is really low price. So if it comes from the start with one that crackles they aren't going to sell the guitar are they?

Either way. The setup problems that the op is getting with the setup of their guitar really does just mean that the guitar needs to be set up better.

As I said before. Even if you buy a brand new (insert your favourite brand here) guitar it'll still need to have all that work done on it just the same as if you bought a (insert your favourite vintage guitar here) or a (insert your least favourite budget guitar here)*

Just if you bought vintage or crazy expensive new you'd hope that the shop would set it up for you.
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Old 03-20-2010, 05:53 AM   #72
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Default Re: To the Guitar People

Quote:
Originally Posted by root View Post
If that were even nearly true then.... I can't think of anything to say there.

Rest assured that you can put whatever eq you want. Use transistors or valves, add as much distortion as you want, you aren't easily going to make a fender or fender copy with single coil pickups sound like a Gibson or Gibson copy with dual coil hum bucking pickups.*
I suppose in the same way that a person can be auto tuned to the correct pitch and made to sound like a robot you can do anything you want with a soundwave pretty much. But it seems like a lot of trouble to go to. (you're not going to get that great of a sound difference just by changing amps. If yu want a fender strat to sound like a Gibson les Paul for example you'll need to do some pretty major signal processing, not just change amps).
You seem to be under the impression that all pickups are somehow equal, or only divided into good or bad,*
You're forgetting that the thickness of the coil wire, the amount of turns, the distance of the coils to the poll pieces, the material of the poll pieces, the uniformity of the winds (or some believe lack there of). The overall construction (I.e how it's set and what it's set in). Whether it's a single coil design. Or whether there are two coils of opposing polarity spaced closely to each other conneceted together such that and hum picked up in the first coil of the pick up will also be picked up in the second pickup (at rougly the same amplitude frequency and phase). Which wll mean the two noise signals are combined and the noise (hum) induced in the pickups will be reduced (the hum will be bucked) -which is why they are called hum bucking pickups, or humbuckers for short. Also the fact that they have twice the amount o winds as a normal single coil pickup usually means that they are 'hotter' and produce a louder fatter sound.*

I agree the pots used in the guitar can have an effect on the amount of noise a guitar produces (I mean hum and inteference). But I'd hardly say that it has a greater effect on the sound than the pickups. In fact I'd go as far to say that the pickups and amp are 99.9% of the sound. Whilst the pots. Grounding and cables form less than 1% together. And any noise generated from there parts really just means that you need tm fix the guitar. (switch cleaner or replace parts) these tend not to be the parts that even budget manufacturers save on though. Even a quality pot is really low price. So if it comes from the start with one that crackles they aren't going to sell the guitar are they?

Either way. The setup problems that the op is getting with the setup of their guitar really does just mean that the guitar needs to be set up better.

As I said before. Even if you buy a brand new (insert your favourite brand here) guitar it'll still need to have all that work done on it just the same as if you bought a (insert your favourite vintage guitar here) or a (insert your least favourite budget guitar here)*

Just if you bought vintage or crazy expensive new you'd hope that the shop would set it up for you.
^That.
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Old 03-20-2010, 09:10 AM   #73
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Default Re: To the Guitar People

Obviously a gibby will never sound exactly like a strat, but the amp most certainly DOES make a bigger impact on the tone. The amp is what makes the noise. On clean settings, you could easily tell them apart, sure, but most guitarists use some sort of distortion or overdrive.

And again I say, a Fender on a high gain "metal" amp is gong to sound a lot more like a Gibson on the same amp than another Fender on a "blues/rock" amp like a Twin or Hot Rod.

And as far as the individual pickups go, if they share a similar design, there's usually not going to be a big difference. There will be a difference, sure, but usually not a huge one unless one of the two is just really, really crappy. For example, I doubt any of you could tell my $120 SX p-bass apart from a real Fender.

edit: In fact, let's find out. One of these basses is a '76 Fender P-bass, and the other is an '07 SX SPB-57. Both have the same strings, within a day's age of each other, and both were recorded using the same settings on a good quality recording setup. tone/volume are at full, IIRC.

http://www.mediafire.com/?zxoozzjzimz
http://www.mediafire.com/?xlzo4ujtymk

which is which?
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Old 03-20-2010, 02:31 PM   #74
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Default Re: To the Guitar People

Bass is completly different monster than guitar. Due to the fact that MOST bass parts do not include GAIN as a part of their tone, you can essentialy use a stand up bass to Mudvayne, and it will still sound good, and close, but the guitar player trying to play Muvayne will have to spend a lot more money, and time on various things to achieve the same level of accuracy for the guitar part. Also note, that Mudvayne was simply an example band that poped into my head, this applies to at least 90% of bands out there.
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Old 03-20-2010, 03:51 PM   #75
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Default Re: To the Guitar People

Actually, the "classic" bass sound is an overdriven Ampeg SVT. Most pro bassists do use some sort of overdrive, however subtle it may be.

And I guarantee you that if Slash wanted to start using Telecasters as his main guitars instead of the H/H ones he normally uses, he could still get very, very close to his signature sound. It'd be a bit brighter, but most people would not know the difference. (actually, he does use a strat and a tele on occasion)

However, if he switched his amp to something like Diamond or Mesa or Peavey, people would notice a huge difference in his tone. Heck, even changing the settings on the same amp could do that.
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Old 03-20-2010, 04:37 PM   #76
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Default Re: To the Guitar People

after seeing what my old guitarist could do with Mesa amp and a PRS, I would say You would hard pressed to find the difference if Slash changed to a Mesa Amp. and what H/H guitars is he using? He has more Gibsons than anything, and more B.C. Riches than Fenders, and plays through a Marshall Amp. That Can be a pretty Heavy amp. If he simply left his toggle switch down when he went to his Solo's/lead parts they would be brighter, but thats the reason why most solo's flip the switch, cause otherwise its TO bright and the pick hitting the string rips the ear up.

Please remember this guy is going for his Second Guitar with the possiblity of upgrading to his second amp, and he is playing Korn, IMO Get somthing with Dual Humbuckers, and an Amp that is Tubed, that BASIC combination will cover MOST of any heavy stuff he is gonna play, and a simple switch to a clean chan, and flip the toggle switch will get Very nice clean tones. Tell me how that is not what he is looking for?
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Old 03-20-2010, 04:42 PM   #77
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Default Re: To the Guitar People

Maybe Mesa wasn't the best example. 5150 then. Is he switched to one of those, do you think he'd sound anywhere close to the Marsh? Hell no.

I never said that's not what he's looking for, although I think the only tube amp in his price range that can pull off metal is the Valveking, and I'm not sure how well he'll b able to emulate Korn with it. Great amp though...needs a bit more gain, but very versatile otherwise. The others in the price range are Peavey Classic/Vox AC type stuff. Ok for rock but usually not newer metal.
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