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Old 05-13-2009, 01:44 AM   #21
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Default Re: God gets owned:

Quote:
Originally Posted by celegorm View Post
Rubber see your inbox.

Anyways some of you are way over looking the point that guy was trying to make. A lot of these crazy Christians say we should follow the bible word for word. He is simply pointing out the crappy kind of world we'd live in if we did.
Bro watch your wording. That is Jewish not Christian.

"as an observant Orthodox Jew"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ-CHRIS View Post
However most like deathbank pick and choose, which you can tell by looking at his reasonings for it.

Deathbank, why do you pick and choose things of the bible. Not being around things like blood and dead animals was common sense than. Back in the same days, there was a big problem with population, people died off quickly and died of many things we can stop today. So as you can see, it was beneficial to reproduce quickly, hence why the bible / church / whatever doesn't appear to like "homosexuality". Fast forward to today, overpopulation is a huge problem. Why can't this rule be changed too? It's no longer needed nowadays.
Why must you start sh*t? Great mod work there...


Quote:
Originally Posted by JogaBonito1502 View Post
MY 2CENTS
The Bible is a set of "rules" (which I think behave more as guidelines) that was written hundreds of years ago. Those "rules" reflected the society of that time. Chris has pointed out the complications that it holds today.

My conclusion: At some point, religions that follow specific "rules" such as Christianity will die. They cannot handle the stress of an evolving society. Based on this, I think I made the right choice by choosing Deism.
The bible was written a long time ago yes. But it talks about things that didn't happen then but happened AFTER it was written. When you figure that out then tell the people who studied why the world stood still for a whole day and can't figure why. Yet the bible talks about it.

Again. This is talking about Jewish not christian.. parts of which are the same. But not ALL.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathbank View Post
I'm not sure I understand your label of "picking and choosing". Are you referring to me of picking and choosing personally preferred examples out of the Bible? It'd be a rather long post if I gave EVERY example I could find so therefore I use the simplest amount I can. You're right, people did die off very quickly and God's rules and laws in those Old Testament chapters were observed to sustain longer life. Not to sound like some of those apocalytpic hardcorists but the reason you stated about the earth becoming over-populated is an indirect sign that the end is coming. Nothing survives forever, and I doubt the human race will. Marriage was not meant for reproduction, or specifically for sexual acts (Im not saying you view it that way either), it was a form of being complete with another person along with God. A sign of a top-notch relationship designed for men and women. Man was alone, so God's solution was to create woman, not another man. Adam and Eve.

"A lot of these crazy Christians say we should follow the bible word for word. He is simply pointing out the crappy kind of world we'd live in if we did."

The New Testament preaches love, respect, and kindness to one another. I fail to see how if everyone followed this word for word, how our world would be crappy.



It's lasted for about 2,000+ years so far... I'd say we've got some momentum.
Once again. I agree with the person everyone likes to bag on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by David Lindon View Post
Half of these are so immature its not worth responding to





Jesus died for us therefore anyone living after he died need not make animal sacrifices



Why would you want to touch a dead pig?





In Bible times salves were common and the bible instructs they must be treaded fairly - rather like a butler or maid - the word 'slave' has a different meaning to us today since the african slave trade etc.
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Old 05-13-2009, 04:01 AM   #22
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Default Re: God gets owned:

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Originally Posted by vampist View Post
Bro watch your wording. That is Jewish not Christian.

"as an observant Orthodox Jew"



Why must you start sh*t? Great mod work there...



The bible was written a long time ago yes. But it talks about things that didn't happen then but happened AFTER it was written. When you figure that out then tell the people who studied why the world stood still for a whole day and can't figure why. Yet the bible talks about it.

Again. This is talking about Jewish not christian.. parts of which are the same. But not ALL.






Once again. I agree with the person everyone likes to bag on.




Thank you!
Judaism,Christianity,Islam IMO its all the same old rubbish just put to you in a different way im not getting into in depth reasons why because time and time again i have in religion threads and they always get closed because someone usually goes over the top and starts flaming so if your really interested in my opinion you can do a search for it
However if you cant tell when the bible was written how can you tell that stuff did happen after it was written that is referenced in there

I dont see how DJ Chris in particular is as you say "Starting shit" he is stating his opinion just because you dont like or agree dosent mean he is trying to start something
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Old 05-13-2009, 05:59 AM   #23
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Default Re: God gets owned:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JogaBonito1502 View Post
MY 2CENTS
The Bible is a set of "rules" (which I think behave more as guidelines) that was written hundreds of years ago. Those "rules" reflected the society of that time. Chris has pointed out the complications that it holds today.

My conclusion: At some point, religions that follow specific "rules" such as Christianity will die. They cannot handle the stress of an evolving society. Based on this, I think I made the right choice by choosing Deism.
lol sorry but Christianity will never die... i can guarantee it...

also @the letter thing like David said, if you would READ THE BIBLE ACTUALLY maybe you wouldn't be asking, JESUS DIED FOR OUR SINS SO WE DON'T NEED TO SACRIFICE ANIMALS OR STUFF LIKE THAT NOW!

its ridiculous how dumb those questions are..
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Old 05-13-2009, 06:14 AM   #24
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Default Re: God gets owned:

To me The Bible is not a set of cast in stone rules but instead a set of guide lines to try and live your life by.

But I have to agree that it was written in the time when there was not much of a population and things were to be blunt, shitty, No clean water. No sanitation. And no medicine. Incest was rampant as everyone in a tribe was somehow related. Modern society no longer has a need for this and it has been outlawed in man's laws. As the Bible states, we have to follow God's laws and man's laws as well. This sometimes puts people on the horns of a dilemma. Man's laws win out as our society has moved in the direction of self governing.

Some men and women were gay then and some are in this day and age. If that's what they want to do then let them do that in peace. It's their lives, let them live it how they want to.

I follow a path that is a mixture of many races and many different religions. I lean hard to the far eastern cultures as I am trained by a Japanese sensei and have been able to see up close how honor, respect, and being at peace with yourself and the world around you can make you a better person.

I will follow the path destiny has laid out for me and enjoy the view along the way.

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Old 05-13-2009, 09:53 AM   #25
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Default Re: God gets owned:

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Originally Posted by muz View Post
Judaism,Christianity,Islam IMO its all the same old rubbish just put to you in a different way im not getting into in depth reasons why because time and time again i have in religion threads and they always get closed because someone usually goes over the top and starts flaming so if your really interested in my opinion you can do a search for it
However if you cant tell when the bible was written how can you tell that stuff did happen after it was written that is referenced in there

I dont see how DJ Chris in particular is as you say "Starting shit" he is stating his opinion just because you dont like or agree dosent mean he is trying to start something
What do you mean "if you can't tell when the Bible was written how can you tell that stuff did happen after it was wirtten that is referenced in there? "

Im curious and this isn't an attack.. Do you own a Bible? One with study notes and background information to answer some of these questions? Most study Bible's will have a foreword at the beginning telling who Authored it, and when it was written. For example, here is a bit of everything put into application. Genesis, was written 1450B.C-1410B.C by Moses, who of course was greatly under God's influence. The purpose was to tell the creation of the world and everything in it. The specific year of creation is undated, which is understandable since the ability to write and record events did not happen until 2500B.C where the Egyptians learned to write by using ink and papyrus and made libraries to store knowledge. So in turn, Moses, having being in Egypt and knowing these skills better than anyone else in the land who could potentially be righteous enough to write the book, wrote it. This includes from the First day, all the way till Joseph died.

Leviticus also has an accurate time span of writing. 1445B.C-1444B.C.

So a new question could be raised, Hey Deathbank, I found some books in the Bible don't have a date period... Whats up with that? Well in those books that do not have EXACT dates, they have a setting description and from that, you can infer a time that the events took place, all of which would make sense given the current cultural and historical background/events that were taking place at the time.



In respone to muz's post:
"Judaism,Christianity,Islam IMO its all the same old rubbish just put to you in a different way im not getting into in depth reasons why because time and time again i have in religion threads and they always get closed because someone usually goes over the top and starts flaming so if your really interested in my opinion you can do a search for it
However if you cant tell when the bible was written how can you tell that stuff did happen after it was written that is referenced in there "

I can assure you there are very distinct differences between Judaism, Christianity and Islam. I would like to hear your thoughts on why they are the same.

I don't understand why people have to "go over the top" and start flaming each other. Im not going to flame you here, I will reason and make valid arguments will not make personal attacks. Of course how you take the words I say could be attacking you, but Im not trying to hurt your feelings or even make you look bad/be a jerk to you.

If you are going to flame people then please stay out of this post.
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Old 05-13-2009, 11:52 AM   #26
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Default Re: God gets owned:

Quote:

Adam and Eve.
yeah, adam and eve, not adam and steve...


Quote:
it was a form of being complete with another person along with God. A sign of a top-notch relationship designed for men and women. Man was alone, so God's solution was to create woman, not another man.
You mean that a man and a woman have to love each other to be complete and you disagree that a man could love another man and feel complete in that,
(I'm assuming that you also disagree tha a woman could love another woman?)

Quote:
The New Testament preaches love, respect, and kindness to one another. I fail to see how if everyone followed this word for word, how our world would be crappy.
yet at the same time breeds hate for gays?

Also I know that the new testament is the christian bible, as far as I know, there is no new testament for the jewish faith?

Quote:
Why must you start sh*t? Great mod work there...
being a mod doesn't mean that you can't have an opinion.


Quote:
also @the letter thing like David said, if you would READ THE BIBLE ACTUALLY maybe you wouldn't be asking, JESUS DIED FOR OUR SINS SO WE DON'T NEED TO SACRIFICE ANIMALS OR STUFF LIKE THAT NOW!
before you start shouting at people to read stuff properly, I suggest that you read the original post,
"as an observant Orthodox Jew,"

the jewish faith does not regard jesus as the coming of god or saviour, so his death, (be it dying for our sins or otherwise) means nothing.
I should imagine not least because it was the jewish people who ultimatly chose that Jesus should die.

in short "as an observant Orthodox Jew," the coming of jesus meant nothing, he was a man, not the sun of god "as an observant Orthodox Jew," his death did not cleans anyones sins, and thus "as an observant Orthodox Jew," his sacrifice does not remove the need for sacrifice.

Quote:
its ridiculous how dumb those questions are..
as far as I know the book of lev is still religious scripture?

I guess you can choose to ignore it, as a christian it wouldn't mean an aweful lot to you.


bascially
Quote:
Originally Posted by original source
as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance.
either the book of lev is outdated and thus homosexuality isn't really a sin, because that's an old book that nobody pays attention to, (in which case the other questions are just silly like you say).

or the book of lev stands, homosexuality is a mortal and unforgivable sin, and the other parts of the book still stnd as well...


so which is it?

is the book of lev wrong, (lots of people say that it is here, because they are christians), is homosexuality OK, and we don't have to burn bulls sell kids into slavery etc.

or is the book right, gays are wrong, and we need to sacrifice, sell kids have slaves etc?



Quote:
Let me start off by quoting Hebrews 8:7 and 13. Verse 7 says for if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. But God found fault with the people and said..." This means that since the people could not obey God's commands and live a holy life, he made a new convenant with different laws that is much more merciful. Verse 13 says By calling this covenant 'new', he has made the first one obsolete and aging will soon disappear. Old testament laws are now obsolete to Christians with the exception of the ten commandments which was stated as always part of the law by Jesus in the Gospels.
again with the christians, whilst the letter is address from and to an person of orthadox Jewish faith.

I guess that this is the ultimate point of the letter, commands in the bible can be wrong, and can be subject to change.

if a set of rules is too hard to follow does that mean that you throw them away and start again.


Quote:
Before you accuse me of being a "self-righteous sanctimonious little prick" please know that Im stating my beliefs,
but surely that's the point, the guy says that he's trying to live by the unchanging word of God, and the book of Lev says that being gay is wrong, but lso gives a lot of other instructions... which are ignored.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:38 PM   #27
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Did you not read my first reply? The old testament laws are obsolete as stated in Hebrews and then Paul delivers a new set of laws inspired by Christ in 1 Corinthians.

Do I believe a man and man, woman and woman can love each other? LOL are you kdding me? I love my dad, and my mother. So obviously yes. In the sense you are describing it as, the human mind is excellent at convincing itself of what it want's to believe.

Where do you draw the conclusion that I, ME, breed hate for gays? Bro, let me tell you, I do NOT hate gays. Thats some backwardly flawed church in kansas who goes around preaching you're going to hell because you don't follow every flipping thing the Bible says. That is not true. You just need Jesus.

My uncle is a homosexual so please don't try to lecture me or use rhetorical reasoning to state that I don't love people no matter their orientation or sins, and that Christians "breed" hate for gays. As a matter of fact, my brother, before he was Christian has extremely homophobic. Not so now that he has accepted Jesus. He would be very comfortable around a gay person (not in a sexual way) and he would love them and talk to them as he should. Im so sorry people have given you guys a distorted vision of what a Christ-like person should be. Back to my uncle, I hug him, tell him i Love him, Get him Christmas presents and holiday gifts-the works. I still fall short though. I can't be as good to everyone as I'd like to be, but I try.
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Old 05-13-2009, 12:54 PM   #28
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Did you not read my first reply? The old testament laws are obsolete as stated in Hebrews and then Paul delivers a new set of laws inspired by Christ in 1 Corinthians.
yes, I did read the reply.

clearly you missed the part in my reply where I noted that the guy writes as a Jew, to a Jew and the Jewish people don't care what was inspired by Christ, since they don't believe that Christ was the son of God...
Quote:
Do I believe a man and man, woman and woman can love each other? LOL are you kdding me? I love my dad, and my mother. So obviously yes. In the sense you are describing it as, the human mind is excellent at convincing itself of what it want's to believe.

Where do you draw the conclusion that I, ME, breed hate for gays? Bro, let me tell you, I do NOT hate gays. Thats some backwardly flawed kansas church who goes around preaching you're going to hell because you don't follow every flipping thing the Bible says. That is not true. You just need Jesus.
I never said that you breed hate for gays, you took that rather personally, and unless you personally wrote the book of lev, then I think that you can assume that I'm not talking about you when I say that passages in the bible can be read as breeding hate for gays. -or at least that's how some people choose to interoperate it.

and it wasn't a backwards Christian anti gay guy in Kansas who wrote the first piece, (that the letter quoted was in response to) it was an orthodox Jewish woman.

Quote:
My uncle is a homosexual so please don't try tolecture me or use rhetorical reasoning to state that I don't love people no matter their orientation or sins, and that Christians "breed" hate for gays. As a matter of fact, my brother, before he was Christian has extremely homophobic. Not so now that he has accepted Jesus. He would be very comfortable around a gay person (not in a sexual way) and he would love them and talk to them as he should. Im so sorry people have given you guys a distorted vision of what a Christ-like person should be. Back to my uncle, I hug him, tell him i Love him, Get him Christmas presents and holiday gifts-the works. I still fall short though. I can't be as good to everyone as I'd like to be, but I try.
Did I say that all Christians hate gays?

I don't see that anywhere in my post. do you?

in fact I think that you'll find I took great lengths to point out that this did not concern Christians, but rather concerned an orthodox Jewish woman who was quoting passages from this book...

and that's the whole point.

the article in the first post is meant to be satiricle and stupid.

the point is how can you read the book of lev, and then preach from it saying it's the absolute word of god that gays are bad, and yet then still ignore a lot of other teaching in the same book?

it doesn't criticise Christianity it criticises a particular person who chose to take specific teaching from that book, whilst ignoring a lot of other teachings from the same book. -and by extension all people who pick and choose what teachings hey want to follow.

it's not about one book of the new testament says this, but you're happily ignoring all the instructions of the old testament,

the point is that if you quote and say that the word in a specific book of the bible is the word of God (in this case Lev) then surely you should be going by all the teachings in that book? (-book being books in the bible, not the bible as one book0

clearly you are saying that book is incorrect and that the old word of God is replaced by a new word of God, so what I was saying doesn't actually apply to you.
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:13 PM   #29
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Default Re: God gets owned:

Quote:
Originally Posted by muz View Post
Judaism,Christianity,Islam IMO its all the same old rubbish just put to you in a different way im not getting into in depth reasons why because time and time again i have in religion threads and they always get closed because someone usually goes over the top and starts flaming so if your really interested in my opinion you can do a search for it
However if you cant tell when the bible was written how can you tell that stuff did happen after it was written that is referenced in there

I dont see how DJ Chris in particular is as you say "Starting shit" he is stating his opinion just because you dont like or agree dosent mean he is trying to start something
Fist bold: I would like you to please hit yourself with the bible... You just claimed that three different religions are the same... How do you get off saying that? Proof?? or are you just saying they are all the same because you are to ignorant to learn the differences?


Quote:
Originally Posted by root View Post
yeah, adam and eve, not adam and steve...




You mean that a man and a woman have to love each other to be complete and you disagree that a man could love another man and feel complete in that,
(I'm assuming that you also disagree tha a woman could love another woman?)


yet at the same time breeds hate for gays?

Also I know that the new testament is the christian bible, as far as I know, there is no new testament for the jewish faith?


being a mod doesn't mean that you can't have an opinion.



before you start shouting at people to read stuff properly, I suggest that you read the original post,
"as an observant Orthodox Jew,"

the jewish faith does not regard jesus as the coming of god or saviour, so his death, (be it dying for our sins or otherwise) means nothing.
I should imagine not least because it was the jewish people who ultimatly chose that Jesus should die.

in short "as an observant Orthodox Jew," the coming of jesus meant nothing, he was a man, not the sun of god "as an observant Orthodox Jew," his death did not cleans anyones sins, and thus "as an observant Orthodox Jew," his sacrifice does not remove the need for sacrifice.


as far as I know the book of lev is still religious scripture?

I guess you can choose to ignore it, as a christian it wouldn't mean an aweful lot to you.


bascially


either the book of lev is outdated and thus homosexuality isn't really a sin, because that's an old book that nobody pays attention to, (in which case the other questions are just silly like you say).

or the book of lev stands, homosexuality is a mortal and unforgivable sin, and the other parts of the book still stnd as well...


so which is it?

is the book of lev wrong, (lots of people say that it is here, because they are christians), is homosexuality OK, and we don't have to burn bulls sell kids into slavery etc.

or is the book right, gays are wrong, and we need to sacrifice, sell kids have slaves etc?




again with the christians, whilst the letter is address from and to an person of orthadox Jewish faith.

I guess that this is the ultimate point of the letter, commands in the bible can be wrong, and can be subject to change.

if a set of rules is too hard to follow does that mean that you throw them away and start again.


but surely that's the point, the guy says that he's trying to live by the unchanging word of God, and the book of Lev says that being gay is wrong, but lso gives a lot of other instructions... which are ignored.

Second bold: Yeah an opinion is one thing. But to bring another members name into your post, when that person didn't even post in this thread (before that post) is starting crap. He singled out Deathbank how is this just having an opinion and not starting something?
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Old 05-13-2009, 01:26 PM   #30
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Default Re: God gets owned:

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Second bold: Yeah an opinion is one thing. But to bring another members name into your post, when that person didn't even post in this thread (before that post) is starting crap. He singled out Deathbank how is this just having an opinion and not starting something?
Deathbank replied in the thread before I did, I was simply refering to what he posted without quoting a whole bunch of text.
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