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Old 03-03-2005, 04:23 PM   #61
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Default Re: German economy slumps

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Originally Posted by rakedog
Bush can't be blamed for the deficit of 2002/2003/2004, but you can't really say that some of his actions didn't contribute to it.


You don't know what a deficit even is. His actions helped economic recovery.

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And whatever happened to "Education being available to everyone at the same level"? I'm sorry, but it is undeniable that unless you have a very good skill that deserves a scholarship, the poor and minorities can't always get into the good universities. Unless it's a private center, like standford, campuses should have reasonable prices.. of course, you get a very good education, but the poor should be able to afford a nice college.


I don't believe in giving benefits to people who can't support themselves and don't have the skills to get a higher education. I'm sick of leftists ripping us off so you can get undeserving people into universities. People who pull down the performance of insititutions...
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Old 03-03-2005, 04:29 PM   #62
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Default Re: German economy slumps

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Originally Posted by root
The question is, what sort of taxes are paid in America? I feel I am paying a relativly large chunk back, what sort of amount do American citizens pay, and why can America not suport it's youth, (-professionals of tomorrow) with university subsidies as british systems do, why does America not have a nationalised health service etc?

and are you any better off (considering te figures I quoted) having to pay for all thse things yourself (and benig able to choose your level of payment) than we are being forced to pay a certain amount?

(I'm sure Gian will be of great help answering this question, so this does seem like a perfect place to ask it...).

So far as scholarships go, you don't have to be that specail to get one!

I had a scollarship and gave it up because I didn't like the institution (scholarship was to do broadcast technology, sponsor was the BBC, institution was tied to Demontfort Uni...) (I also applied for various Army and Navy sponsorships but didn't want to be tied to the forces upon leaving Uni...)
Root I have $12,000 USD from the federal government, a student loan to be exact. I pay 1.45% interest on it, which is very low. I had it lowered from 8% to 1.45% after applying for this reduction. Additionally as far as scholarships go, they are offered to people who have the skills. And grants are another form. These are way easier to get. I'm getting a $2,000 Cal Grant A from the government because my grades are pretty good. Cal Grant B is for people who have lower income. I did not qualify for that one as I'm counted as dependent. So the fact remains we ARE NOT FORCED to pay everything. There is a ton of assistance out there in this nation and people just don't file the forms to get more then often. I'm even going to apply for an Italian-American scholarship, because my dad is Italian American and I have good grades. All I have to do is do an essay and send in some proof that my grandfather or grandmother came to this country.

A nationalised health service is stupid. Let me explain why.. it will cause doctors to leave the field and go for a field that pays more. Nationalization would drag down the quality of health, and cause huge lines and waits to develop at health centers. Organ donor waits would increase, and the hold for operations would increase. Nationalized health care would kill, in my opinion. Our health system is in much better shape then yours, and that is also explained by the clear fact that many Europeans go to the US for healthcare. My family in Italy has left Italy numerous times to the US for operations. Thank goodness for privatized healthcare. A true innovator.
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Old 03-03-2005, 05:25 PM   #63
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Default Re: German economy slumps

but surely privatised healthcare leads to people in the population whom are unable to afford adequate health care...

I think that a purely private healthcare system is stupid, (and let me tell you why...) there will always be a percentage of the population whom are not able to afford the adequate insurance, I mean you are fine, you've told usyour father works inside of the government, so I assume that he has more than adequate insurance for himself and his family... I doubt however that the person packing your bags in wallmart has the same extensive cover... (and I know that people can work out payment plans on their healthcare after the event...) but it's still not ideal.

You are right Organ donaor waiting lists are longer in countrys with nationalised healthcare systems, but that's because there is a waiting list for human organs, and they are not sold to the highest bidder...

you say many Euroeans go to america for healthcare, Many expatriots come back to britain for healthcare where it is free, (or at least not as expensive if you decide to choose private healthcare) a particular example is my girlfrinds mother came back to britain to give birth (to her brother), simply because there were possibly comoplications (because of her age), this saved her possibly thousands of dollars.

I think the healthcare system in britain is one of the best (though I would thats patriotism for you!)...
the reaon I think it is one of the best is because a level of healthcare is provided as a nationalised service for all, this ensure that everyone regardless of their job is entitled to healthcare with no crippling financial strain. also there is a privatised healthcare system available for those whom would like to pay for further care, (certain things are not covered in a national healthplan, an example of this is porcelain dentistry, only silver fillings are provided, so if a person has a cavity at the front of their mouth it is more popular to have private healthcare to get a white filling),

So far as unis go, I didn't realise that there was a loan system available, i mean when Rakedog was saying how much a place at university cost, I assumed (I guess mostly from watching films) that there was no loan system available, and the onus was more on parets to save for their childrens future...


The scolarship I won. I did have the skills and I had to proove the skills, I was selected along with nine others for scholarships against some hundreds who applied, (courses wherescholarships are possible are always more popular), My point is that a scholarship is not always the best place to be, I left Demontfort Uni because I didn't feel that the location was right for me, my scholarship was tied to a specific course at a particular uni...
I didn't fully aply for military sponsorships because I didn't want to be endebted to the military (nothing against servicemen, I just don't think I could be one!)
again though I had assumed that the scholarship scheme was more provailent in America because it was more expensive to go to uni, with less nationalised support in the form of loans/grants (though obviously my assumptions were wrong)
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Old 03-03-2005, 05:27 PM   #64
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Default Re: German economy slumps

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Originally Posted by Giancarlo
I don't believe in giving benefits to people who can't support themselves and don't have the skills to get a higher education. I'm sick of leftists ripping us off so you can get undeserving people into universities. People who pull down the performance of insititutions...
Are you saying that if people can't afford to go to a university then they are not entitled to a place?

you don't have to be rich to be intelligent you know?
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Old 03-03-2005, 08:24 PM   #65
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Default Re: German economy slumps

I didn't say you have to be rich to be smart. If you are smart you can get a scholarship or grant. I heard of many success stories like that. But you should not receive preferential treatment over your income bracket on whether you can get accepted or not.

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Originally Posted by root
but surely privatised healthcare leads to people in the population whom are unable to afford adequate health care...
And makes the entire system suffer greatly. I have no problem with some government funding for health care (and that's what you have in the US).. but hospitals are privately owned thus enabling them to be able to afford more equipment.

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I mean you are fine, you've told usyour father works inside of the government, so I assume that he has more than adequate insurance for himself and his family... I doubt however that the person packing your bags in wallmart has the same extensive cover... (and I know that people can work out payment plans on their healthcare after the event...) but it's still not ideal.
My family is given Bluecross Blueshield federal insurance. Blueshield insurance is $42/month. Don't tell me someone can't afford that. There is plenty of good, inexpensive insurance out there. Nationalized healthcare leads to devastation in health coverage. We will all suffer, when there are longer waits in hospitals. That's why you are not acting practically.

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You are right Organ donaor waiting lists are longer in countrys with nationalised healthcare systems, but that's because there is a waiting list for human organs, and they are not sold to the highest bidder...
In the United States, to get a organ transplant you have to be on the list and pay for it. You cannot expect the government to pay for it for you. Insurance often covers this, and insurance can be obtained at inexpensive rates. That's why I'm against nationalized health care as it would spell disaster for the health of our nation. Our nation is also substantially bigger then yours population wise.... so that's why it would not be practical.

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Many expatriots come back to britain for healthcare where it is free, (or at least not as expensive if you decide to choose private healthcare) a particular example is my girlfrinds mother came back to britain to give birth (to her brother), simply because there were possibly comoplications (because of her age), this saved her possibly thousands of dollars.
Not at all true because health care in Britain or Italy for that matter is worse then it is here. Here in the United States health care is better funded and better technologies are the result. I have more faith in the better healthcare system in the United States, then I do in Europe. I can go in with my insurance card and get a broken leg looked at, while in Europe I would have to wait quite some time.

Quote:
the reaon I think it is one of the best is because a level of healthcare is provided as a nationalised service for all, this ensure that everyone regardless of their job is entitled to healthcare with no crippling financial strain. also there is a privatised healthcare system available for those whom would like to pay for further care, (certain things are not covered in a national healthplan, an example of this is porcelain dentistry, only silver fillings are provided, so if a person has a cavity at the front of their mouth it is more popular to have private healthcare to get a white filling),
Healthcare in Britain is far worse then it is in the United States. The US has the best. Privatized health care with some government assistance (like in the United States) is the best way to go. National healthplan would spell total disaster for this country, financial and health-wise. It would prevent people from being able to get healthcare at the time they need it.

Thus this is why I'm solidly against nationalized healthcare. It would spell national disaster.

Quote:
The scolarship I won. I did have the skills and I had to proove the skills, I was selected along with nine others for scholarships against some hundreds who applied, (courses wherescholarships are possible are always more popular), My point is that a scholarship is not always the best place to be, I left Demontfort Uni because I didn't feel that the location was right for me, my scholarship was tied to a specific course at a particular uni...
I didn't fully aply for military sponsorships because I didn't want to be endebted to the military (nothing against servicemen, I just don't think I could be one!)
again though I had assumed that the scholarship scheme was more provailent in America because it was more expensive to go to uni, with less nationalised support in the form of loans/grants (though obviously my assumptions were wrong)
You have to prove your skills in the US by getting the grades... and writing an essay (for some of them). I can get grants easily. And plus there are grants avaliable for those of lower income, thus invalidating the point of people here saying those who do not have the income can't go to college.. there is more then enough assistance in the United States. I'm telling people grants are much easier to get these days, especially the Cal Grants I speak about.

Grants, loans or scholarships can either be public or private in this nation. You can get loans from say Bank of America.. which is a private institution.
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