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Old 05-04-2011, 11:34 PM   #1
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Default Economic Impact of illegal immigrants

Thought some of you guys might be interested in this article. It's by NPR which is generally reliable, but they are a little liberal sometimes.

Q&A: Illegal Immigrants and the U.S. Economy : NPR

Quote:
There is one group of Americans that would benefit from a dramatic cut in illegal immigration: high-school dropouts. Most economists agree that the wages of low-skill high-school dropouts are suppressed by somewhere between 3 percent and 8 percent because of competition from immigrants, both legal and illegal. Economists speculate that for the average high-school dropout, that would mean about a $25 a week raise if there were no job competition from immigrants.

Illegal immigrants seem to have very little impact on unemployment rates. Undocumented workers certainly do take jobs that would otherwise go to legal workers. But undocumented workers also create demand that leads to new jobs. They buy food and cars and cell phones, they get haircuts and go to restaurants. On average, there is close to no net impact on the unemployment rate.
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There are places in the United States where illegal immigration has big effects (both positive and negative). But economists generally believe that when averaged over the whole economy, the effect is a small net positive. Harvard's George Borjas says the average American's wealth is increased by less than 1 percent because of illegal immigration.

Some other things that are interesting... More jobs are lost to machines and automation than immigrants, illegals pay taxes, but are not able to collect social security or anything of the sort even though they pay into it. Their children who are born legal citizens will be able to collect.

Americans better get some education as well, not many companies accept F1 Visas for work from international students, but since there is a lacking in science/engineering majors in US citizens, companies may start accepting more Visa's. Once a Chinese/Indian engineer works in a company with an F1 visa, they can get an H1 Visa and many more companies can hire them then, and they become permanent citizens. Continental Tire and Oshkosh Trucks are two of the companies that currently hire F1 students, but more will start since there is a lack of people for there positions in America. This is all according to my Chinese roommate who is trying to find an engineering job in America.
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: Economic Impact of illegal immigrants

What NPR reports makes sense. Economically, illegal immigrants may have a positive impact. Ideologically, I'm against them. I am a greencard holder and a few years ago, a bill was passed that would allow illegal immigrants already in the US to get their greencards. AKA, a ton of people passed in front of my family in the line to get greencards. My dad came here through outstanding achievement in his work. A bit unfair don't you think?
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Old 05-04-2011, 11:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: Economic Impact of illegal immigrants

Well, our laws have been that there are hemispheric limits on immigrants with 10% of immigrants from any country being of higher education. The fact that you are able to get your greencards, and others as well, I don't see any downside?
This country is built on immigration, I'm all for it, lol.
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Economic Impact of illegal immigrants

ILLEGAL immigrants jumped ahead of me in line. I'm legal. See the problem there?
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:52 AM   #5
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Default Re: Economic Impact of illegal immigrants

Now I see how I got hired at Mitsubishi lmao
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Old 05-05-2011, 07:30 AM   #6
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Default Re: Economic Impact of illegal immigrants

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My dad came here through outstanding achievement in his work. A bit unfair don't you think?
I agree, particularly unfair.

Can I ask what your dads outstanding achievement was?


(I'm not criticising your dad, just wondering, we have a similar system here, our receptionist at work is a highly skilled migrant, her skill is speaking English).
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:34 AM   #7
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Default Re: Economic Impact of illegal immigrants

Immigration is a highly-charged subject here in California-- a good percentage are immigrants or have family members who are recent immigrants, both legal and otherwise. Over here, illegals do get health care and other benefits, and there is push to allow them to get drivers licenses and such.

I hear the "illegals take jobs away" argument a lot. What jobs? Mowing lawns? Picking fruit? They do all the work, for less pay, that 98% of arrogant native US citizens would not deign to do. How is that taking jobs away? They are filling a niche.

Yes, instant amnesty would be unfair to those who have been and are working the system correctly. Life is unfair. Sadly, it would not solve anything in the long run, either-- remember, President Reagan did the same thing 30 years ago. The problem that needs to be fixed first is the overall immigration policy-- who is allowed in and who isn't; with coherent and logical reasons behind why and for how long.

Once that is fixed, then a discussion of blanket immunity should be addressed.
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:40 AM   #8
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Default Re: Economic Impact of illegal immigrants

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Originally Posted by Dngrsone View Post
Immigration is a highly-charged subject here in California-- a good percentage are immigrants or have family members who are recent immigrants, both legal and otherwise. Over here, illegals do get health care and other benefits, and there is push to allow them to get drivers licenses and such.
The same push is happening here in Milwaukee (and I assume in all of Wisconsin).

Quote:
Yes, instant amnesty would be unfair to those who have been and are working the system correctly. Life is unfair. Sadly, it would not solve anything in the long run, either-- remember, President Reagan did the same thing 30 years ago. The problem that needs to be fixed first is the overall immigration policy-- who is allowed in and who isn't; with coherent and logical reasons behind why and for how long.

I agree with this 100%.
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Old 05-05-2011, 10:01 AM   #9
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Default Re: Economic Impact of illegal immigrants

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Originally Posted by Dngrsone View Post
I hear the "illegals take jobs away" argument a lot. What jobs? Mowing lawns? Picking fruit? They do all the work, for less pay, that 98% of arrogant native US citizens would not deign to do. How is that taking jobs away? They are filling a niche.
you're kind of right and kind of wrong.

I'm reminded of a documentary I watched on unemployment.
there was a part in the show where they went to a job centre (a place where people go to sign on to welfare and search for jobs)

across the road was a sign saying that strawberry pickers were wanted, the sign was being ignored by people in the queue for the job centre.

the presenter asked one of the queueing people why they didn't apply for that job and they said that it didn't pay enough and that the work was menial.

There are a lot of immigrant workers who do pick fruit and vegetables.
there are a lot of nationals who consider such work below them...

notably that's not everybody. so if an illegal migrant worker takes a job, it doesn't matter that you feel it's below you, another legal worker (national or migrant) might have wanted that job.

which is where the argument doesn't hold up.

a better example is the jobs that migrant workers take that people do want, (this could be hair dressers/stylists or could be in construction of manufacturing).

the idea that migrant workers only take the jobs that nobody wants so nobody cares is false, -there are people who are not too proud to do any work (and I believe that those people are likely the most deserving of jobs really). -they care

the idea that migrant workers only that the low skilled jobs that nobody cares about is false -because migrant workers are perfectly able to do skilled jobs, (construction, IT, finance or service industry jobs)
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:33 PM   #10
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Default Re: Economic Impact of illegal immigrants

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Can I ask what your dads outstanding achievement was?
My dad is one of the pioneers in virtual reality. He set up the virtual reality center at Embraer and led it to become one of the premier centers in the Americas, and elite in the world. He was hired by NIAR (at Wichita State University) to set up their virtual reality center, which he did by himself. He's won an award for outstanding technical presentation in the equivalent of an Oscar for the technical community. Maybe not quite an Oscar-like, but highly reputable. I mean...I feel awkward typing out his merits because he's humble about it, but he's an expert in his field really. Unfortunately, he never went on to Ph.D so he doesn't have a formal title.
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