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Old 06-23-2012, 04:57 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by iPwn View Post
I'm not singling out Apple consumers either. People nowadays purchase things based on looks, commercials and what they're uneducated friends think. PC and Apple alike.
I dont particularly think purchasing something based on looks is necessarily a bad thing though . ?
for instance if im buying a new laptop or a new phone or a car something that im going to use every single day I want something aesthetically pleasing to look at do I not ?

I get the criticism that you are making but I dont really see it as a valid criticism . Ads for every single type of product make claims about their product that they dont then go ahead and evidence in their advert because for the consumer that requires this evidence the information can be accessed most likely online .

its not just tech ads look at car ads for example they show you loads of cut scenes of the car they are advertising driving through some scenic places and then say a few marketing buzz words about the car . Say for example they are claiming they have a new even quieter engine its not necessary in the ad to detail how the new configuration of the engine makes it quieter that information is out there for the consumer that would require that level of detail . if ads had to 'evidence' what claims it was they where making we would be seeing ad breaks lasting half an hour or something like that .

whilst i get where you are coming from that most people who purchase computers dont know anything about the technical specs again i dont think it is necessary that you should need to know this much information . For instance if you are some college kid buying a laptop to type up some reports on the difference between the intel i7-920XM and the i7-940Xm really is not going to matter to your use and the 2 model numbers will mean nothing to you whereas the difference between how laptops look might be a real deal breaker to you . Majority of consumers in the pc market are more like this than the member base of this forum for example who may want to do things with their machine that require a more in depth analysis of the spec in making a purchasing decision .

Just because you are one of the users that has this intended use of your machine or the knowledge does not mean that that type of mindset is right for every type of consumer . I will give you an example from my Life . I cycle for fitness / hopefully to compete in a triathlon so I know a lot about pedal cycles . My intended use is competitive cycling so I have a rather expensive bike that I ride for these purposes . Thats not to say the person who buys a bike half the price of mine to cycle to work has made the wrong purchasing decision. As long as they are satisfied with the bike and it meets their intended use of the bike they have made the correct purchasing decision .
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Old 06-23-2012, 06:47 PM   #12
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The video is on their website. You're more than feel to explore and find the technical details, if you wish. Your criticism doesn't make sense to be honest, and I'm not sure what you're getting at.
My criticism is not aimed at Apple. My Criticism is aimed directly at the modern consumer. This all spawned from a number of facebook posts by acquaintances ranting and raving about how they can't wait to go buy the new MacBook based solely on that video. It's absolutely disgusting to me how people are so willing to spend money on a product that they know very little about or do not understand how that product/service will fill a need that they have. I personally do not work out of necessity. I get school stipends and a small disability from the government. That's enough for me to live off of. I work out of want because I can't stay home and sit in my underwear all day. So, when I get paid, it's usually disposable income for me. Regardless, I'm a bit picky on who I give the fruits of my labor to. I don't buy crap because a TV commercial or online video paid a guy with a british accent to say a few words. I research things first, and then select a product/service that makes the most sense and has the least 'opportunity cost' associated with it.
A close friend of mine literally purchased a MacBook Pro not too long ago. I believe it was less than a month later that the new MacBook pro was advertised. We got on the topic and he starts telling me about how bad he wants to get it. I asked him how fast the chip was, how many cores, etc. He had no idea. He uses his current MacBook to stream Netflix to his TV so the retina display feature is pretty useless too. What makes me so mad about it is that he's not a rich guy. He has to cut costs (push bills back/eat less/drive less) just to purchase it.


Now, the only reason I linked the Apple video to get to this point was that it became so popular with MacFanBoys. Most (not all) had no clue on what it had under the hood. All they knew was that it was new. Why buy the same thing just because it has a "new" sticker on it?
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Old 06-23-2012, 07:00 PM   #13
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I asked him how fast the chip was, how many cores, etc. He had no idea. He uses his current MacBook to stream Netflix to his TV so the retina display feature is pretty useless too. What makes me so mad about it is that he's not a rich guy. He has to cut costs (push bills back/eat less/drive less) just to purchase it.
Again, who gives a shit how many cores it has? Seriously. You have got to understand that things like that no longer matter to the consumer. The only thing that matters is the end product. As long as the consumer is satisfied, what else is there need to know?

Just because I don't understand how my car works doesn't mean I can't appreciate its overall function and utility in my life.

...and in the end, who are you to judge whether or not a MacBook will be useful in their life? Who gave you that right?

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Now, the only reason I linked the Apple video to get to this point was that it became so popular with MacFanBoys. Most (not all) had no clue on what it had under the hood. All they knew was that it was new. Why buy the same thing just because it has a "new" sticker on it?
Most? Really? Again, you're generalizing. It's easy to undermine a group of people to make your argument seem substantiated, and to be frank, it shows a lack of understanding for the market you're criticizing.
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Old 06-24-2012, 12:04 AM   #14
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People as a whole are Technology ignorant. Adds have to say fast and awesome graphic display is life-like if you just say (example I don't know the specs on new macbook) it has a 1billion color 800ppi display with a 3GHz quadcore processor/ most people are going to be like WTF with that deer in the head light expression but you say a full color retina display with life-like 3d graphics and a super fast processor they like "awesome I gotta have that"
Comercial are for the ignorant me myself if I am asked to consult on buying a new computer or if I was to buy one myself I ask price range then look at ram/processor/graphics card on all models in the store at that price and point out or get the best combo.
Most people are just surfing the net and storing/printing photos anyway if they are a gamer they need a top of the line PC but if they want a real computer that can really do it all the best quality possible and want a computer that will last several years and don't mind spending money I say get the Macbook Pro they are durable and can dualboot Mac X or Windows even add Linux.
Personally I love Mac OS but most stuff needs windows to play and I have yet to see a Hackintosh run properly on a machine in my hands cause Apple does not sllow their software to be installed on a PC part of their grand marketing scheme.
Don't blame the marketing team for the common man's ignorance. All people want to know is it's fast, it looks great, it's a status symbol the rest to them is gibberish.
Just my 2cent rant lol
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:49 PM   #15
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It's absolutely disgusting to me how people are so willing to spend money on a product that they know very little about or do not understand how that product/service will fill a need that they have.
not everything I purchase I know every little tiny detail about . And to be honest in many cases there might be technically better products out there but I just buy what does what I need and looks nice . i dont necessarily need to know how an jet plane works to appreciate the destination I arrive at . Despite the fact that flights can get very very expensive .

If consumers want to throw down $2000 + plus on a new mac that's their business . I think given the choice we would all have the latest car ,computer , phone etc

Its just like 9/10 people I know who drive and own a car dont need a car for the regular journeys they make . For the journeys they make public transport or a bike or even walking in many cases would not be a major inconvenience . For example I know one guy who uses his car to drive a 1.5 mile journey to work . I can cycle that in less than 10 minutes however I do not get disgusted at his decision to use the car because that's his decision and its his money he is spending at the end of the day . If he chooses to use his disposable income on the car that's his choice , Me id rather save mine and spend it on a holiday no choice is any more valid .
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Old 06-26-2012, 03:29 AM   #16
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Again, who gives a shit how many cores it has? Seriously. You have got to understand that things like that no longer matter to the consumer. The only thing that matters is the end product. As long as the consumer is satisfied, what else is there need to know?

Just because I don't understand how my car works doesn't mean I can't appreciate its overall function and utility in my life.

...and in the end, who are you to judge whether or not a MacBook will be useful in their life? Who gave you that right?


Most? Really? Again, you're generalizing. It's easy to undermine a group of people to make your argument seem substantiated, and to be frank, it shows a lack of understanding for the market you're criticizing.

  • The end product is only as good as the sum of it's parts.
  • A consumer is satisfied by consuming unhealthy doses of alcohol; therefore, a consumers satisfaction alone should not be the single deciding factor for the consumer.
  • The other "Need to know" is... If Paul gives Peter $100, what does Paul get in return? Is the service or product that Paul receives in exchange for the surrender of his disposable income worth the total cost of the service or product to Paul?
  • I understand the market very well (probably a lot better than you considering my past experience with Apple executives and business proposals, which whether or not you believe that does nothing to its validity).
  • I never said an Apple product will not be useful in someones life.
  • I am only generalizing based on the sample size that I am exposed to but realize that this is not always representative of the larger target consumer population.
  • The car thing is a bad analogy.

When purchasing a car, do you go to the dealership and purchase based solely on color? When purchasing a car, do you see the coolest car you can find and then purchase regardless of price/sacrifice/long term impact?
Purchasing a car is a large scale financial decision based on price and opportunity cost. The lower the price, the more likely you are to purchase with less information, even though the opportunity cost of the purchase is rarely considered.
When a car is greater than x% of yearly income or creates a large enough impact on the disposable income of the consumer, comparisons are made as to the true cost of the vehicle (CostOfCar+Fuel+Maint.+Insurance) You start to ask questions about MPG/Warranty and get quotes for insurance... right?

The problem here (I'll say it again, but differently) is that our consumerism society has bred a generation of laborers who make poor decisions. The logic is: A purchase of $100 is greater than 100 purchases of $2. That's mathematically incorrect, duh.

Now, I'm sure you jumped all over the thread because you perceived someone bashing Apple. I'll admit that in my rants, I'm not always good about clearly articulating the exact point. When I get disgusted with people or try to quickly type something out that has a lot of thought or connecting ideas creating the larger issue, my internal compression algorithm is seriously flawed. With that being said; let's start this thread over.

Subject:
Apple is a great organization and very keen on how to market to consumers; but by golly has their recent ad for the new MacBook Pro caused a reaction by a small sample of consumers I happen to know that reveals a larger issue in the way we research products that we buy and evaluate the return on investment for seemingly small purchases due to our poor education system and parental values that prepare subsequent generations for financial stability and overall market health.

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Old 06-26-2012, 04:05 AM   #17
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  • A consumer is satisfied by consuming unhealthy doses of alcohol; therefore, a consumers satisfaction alone should not be the single deciding factor for the consumer.
  • The other "Need to know" is... If Paul gives Peter $100, what does Paul get in return? Is the service or product that Paul receives in exchange for the surrender of his disposable income worth the total cost of the service or product to Paul?
Those 2 points contradict .
when we are talking about disposable income the worth of what Paul receives is subjective and will have bearing on his personal preferences . I for example like music so if I gave peter $100 in exchange for an I pod I will be satisfied and the i pod will have a great deal of worth to me . Whereas if I was deaf receiving an I pod in exchange for $100 would not be worthwhile for me .

Where I believe you are falling down here is in trying to elucidate some kind of objective view on the worth of a purchase when purchashing decisions are always subjective . Another analogy if I may albeit an extreme one . To me living in the UK if someone gave me new macbook pro with its retina display for free that would be a very valuable gift . However If I lived in a tribal African village and someone attempted to give me the same gift the item would be worthless to me . clearly in the second situation I would have other priorities which would make the macbook pro worthless

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The problem here (I'll say it again, but differently) is that our consumerism society has bred a generation of laborers who make poor decisions. The logic is: A purchase of $100 is greater than 100 purchases of $2. That's mathematically incorrect, duh.
In many situations a purchase of $100 is usually greater than the smaller purchases totaling more because when spending more money on a single item the opportunity for buyers remorse increases . If I pay $100 for something and it isn't fit for purpose I am likely to return it or try and get an exchange etc whereas if I have bought something for $2 the likelihood of me returning it if it isn't fit for purpose is significantly reduced because of how much of a percentage of my disposable income $2 is .

whilst the car analogy does have its differences you do get people who flood out to get the latest model of cars after every ad campaign despite the fact that the vehicle they have at the moment is completely fit for purpose and still satisfying their needs . Another place where you often see poor purchasing decisions of cars is with young drivers who are purchasing their first car . particularly boys . They will purchase some expensive powerful vehicle as their first car despite the statistical likelihood that they are going to be involved in a collision of some sort .

I honestly dont think what you are complaining of is a real issue that has to potential to cause any problem on its own . Consumers have always bought and consumed what they fully dont understand and dont necessarily need with their disposable income . If nobody bought anything they didn't really need with their disposable income and instead saved their disposable income we would be creating a harsh economic climate .
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Old 06-26-2012, 04:34 AM   #18
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Those 2 points contradict .
when we are talking about disposable income the worth of what Paul receives is subjective and will have bearing on his personal preferences . I for example like music so if I gave peter $100 in exchange for an I pod I will be satisfied and the i pod will have a great deal of worth to me . Whereas if I was deaf receiving an I pod in exchange for $100 would not be worthwhile for me.
The two points do not contradict.

When comparing the purchase of a 2 apples for $1 vs. 1 orange for $2, one can justly make the claim that the value is always subjective when considering the amount of surplus that we currently live in. If you like Oranges more than Apples, buy the freaking oranges and enjoy a damn orange. Borrowing from your analogy below; living in a desolate village in Africa is going to greatly change the dynamic of that purchasing decision. My opportunity cost greatly favors purchasing apples and living with the fact that I need to start liking Apples.

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Where I believe you are falling down here is in trying to elucidate some kind of objective view on the worth of a purchase when purchashing decisions are always subjective.
Worth is subjective, but not in a monetarily sound system.

The only thing subjective about the worth of a purchase is the Marginal Utility score at each increase to quantity. How much do I benefit, or how much use do I personally get when purchasing another? another? another?

Worth is very much so objective. I can walk into our accounting department at any time and give them a serial number on any given electronic device and they can tell me exactly how much it's worth. Any smile that the device puts on my face between the time I purchase and the time I sell/write off is an added benefit.


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In many situations a purchase of $100 is usually greater than the smaller purchases totaling more because when spending more money on a single item the opportunity for buyers remorse increases . If I pay $100 for something and it isn't fit for purpose I am likely to return it or try and get an exchange etc whereas if I have bought something for $2 the likelihood of me returning it if it isn't fit for purpose is significantly reduced because of how much of a percentage of my disposable income $2 is .
Read that again. Thanks
Read it once more. Thanks

The latter half of the paragraph proves the first sentence false. If I am less likely to return a $2 item because the value and cost of the single item doesn't by itself represent a large amount of my revenue stream, the $2 item creates a bigger problem in my overall balance between debits and credits to my holdings. I will therefore make more purchases of the $2 item, but remain cautious with the purchase of $100 item. Eventually, purchasing the correct $100 item may have solved the need to any $2 item in the first place, therefore wasting opportunity cost and destroying my ROI.

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whilst the car analogy does have its differences you do get people who flood out to get the latest model of cars after every ad campaign despite the fact that the vehicle they have at the moment is completely fit for purpose and still satisfying their needs . Another place where you often see poor purchasing decisions of cars is with young drivers who are purchasing their first car . particularly boys . They will purchase some expensive powerful vehicle as their first car despite the statistical likelihood that they are going to be involved in a collision of some sort .
Television and News articles may make it look like America is full of the idiots buying car after car, but we are broke as all hell.

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I honestly dont think what you are complaining of is a real issue that has to potential to cause any problem on its own . Consumers have always bought and consumed what they fully dont understand and dont necessarily need with their disposable income . If nobody bought anything they didn't really need with their disposable income and instead saved their disposable income we would be creating a harsh economic climate .
The point here is pretty good. For a capitalist market to thrive, 'nice to have's' are key in creating balance, and higher equilibrium wage and various other 'Macro' level economic constants. I don't think, however, that you get the potential here. If a society is willing to purchase anything and everything based solely on a video clip, then they are probably ready to be enslaved too. A society that does not hold itself to a higher standard has no right in being a 'modern' society. Things should be known and basic understanding should be expected.
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Old 06-26-2012, 05:37 AM   #19
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The two points do not contradict.

When comparing the purchase of a 2 apples for $1 vs. 1 orange for $2, one can justly make the claim that the value is always subjective when considering the amount of surplus that we currently live in. If you like Oranges more than Apples, buy the freaking oranges and enjoy a damn orange.
You haven't actually shown how the two points dont contradict here though , Like I said you have in fact backed up my point that despite the higher cost vs no measurable benefit people should buy the oranges because they "enjoy" the oranges . Without getting technical about the nutritional properties of both there is no added benefit to you in buying an orange however here you are saying people should buy it ?
Its much like there is no additional benefit in purchasing the new mbp if you have the current mbp however many people desire to have the latest thing etc this kind of unmeasurable enjoyment also factors into purchasing decisions and just because a monetary value cannot be given for it does not mean that it does not factor heavilly into many peoples purchasing decisions
Quote:
Worth is subjective, but not in a monetarily sound system.

The only thing subjective about the worth of a purchase is the Marginal Utility score at each increase to quantity. How much do I benefit, or how much use do I personally get when purchasing another? another? another?

Worth is very much so objective. I can walk into our accounting department at any time and give them a serial number on any given electronic device and they can tell me exactly how much it's worth. Any smile that the device puts on my face between the time I purchase and the time I sell/write off is an added benefit.
clearly if tech companies like apple are still posting sales figures and making a profit marginal utility has yet to decrease because perhaps of this unmeasurable satisfaction that people get when purchasing a laptop

Just because the accounting department can give you the $$$ price of an item does not mean that this is the only value that the consumer sees when they look at the item . Take for example old family heirlooms I could get a pawnbroker to value a ring that we have in our family at about 1000 however to the family it is worth significantly more than that in sentimental terms .
Again like If i Where to loose my macbook pro tomorrow Whilst I would be compensated for my monetary loss by my insurance company and my laptop would be replaced I would have lost a lot of time in setting up the device as well as the personal value of some of the photographs and documents stored on the device .
Quote:
The latter half of the paragraph proves the first sentence false. If I am less likely to return a $2 item because the value and cost of the single item doesn't by itself represent a large amount of my revenue stream, the $2 item creates a bigger problem in my overall balance between debits and credits to my holdings. I will therefore make more purchases of the $2 item, but remain cautious with the purchase of $100 item. Eventually, purchasing the correct $100 item may have solved the need to any $2 item in the first place, therefore wasting opportunity cost and destroying my ROI.
I offered up a reason why the consumer in many cases does not return / take considerable notice of purchasing $2 items . In the extreme scenario you have given purchasing 100 $2 items followed by a $100 item to do the same job does seem silly and a waste of money etc however one thing it appears you have failed to account for here is the likelihood of finding a satisfactory $2 item before purchasing more than 50 of the $2 item . Additionally I know of no real situation where the choice is between $2 items and $100 Items that do exactly the same job .

However lets take this as the example . I as would many consumers would start to research the item we wanted to buy if after buying a certain amount of $2 items if not for anything else because of the added inconvenience of having to repeatedly buy items to carry out a particular task

Quote:
Television and News articles may make it look like America is full of the idiots buying car after car, but we are broke as all hell.
Someone is still buying them though ?

Quote:
If a society is willing to purchase anything and everything based solely on a video clip, then they are probably ready to be enslaved too. A society that does not hold itself to a higher standard has no right in being a 'modern' society. Things should be known and basic understanding should be expected.
I dont quite agree with this . You will always have some people with excessive brand loyalty (Fanboys) however I dont see many blackberry fanboys rushing out to buy this Porsche Design P'9981 - Touch Screen Smartphone from BlackBerry UK . I dont particularly think everyone needs to know technical details of a macbook if all they want to do with it is browse the web its just not necessary .If they are willing to pay that price and it satisfies you then to me there is nothing else to it .

Another reason these 'nice to haves ' are so important is that if thousands of these consumers didn't rush out any buy the new macbook or the latest dell computers etc etc then companies like this as well as other companies in the supply change would not be able to nor have any need to carry out research and development . For example if only the market who had the capability to full use the i7 bought it then Intel wouldn't be able to afford R&D for the next line of process so if you are a true tech enthusiast you should in fact appreciate the fact that people who cant utilize its full power are still buying machines with i7's in

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Quote:
Read that again. Thanks
Read it once more. Thanks
cut the arrogant crap like this , its not necessary you can make your points without it and as a member of the site team you of all people should know better than that . If you are in fact incapable of making your points without resorting to that kind of attitude then dont bother making them because in my view it just makes you look and sound like you have run out of arguments . I believe arrogance from seasoned members like that is part of the reason that we have such trouble attracting members who are willing to stick around here
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:51 AM   #20
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Dude you gettin worked up over opinions.
And by the way when i buy a car i look at style, speed, and can I pay for it. Past experience has showed me that how well it holds up is in proper maintainence and how you drive and where you drive.
I can make a Kia last 10 years(a long life for such a cheap car) or 2 days same with a Corvette, Chevy Truck, or a Peterbuilt with a Cat engine(yeah I know my way around a big rig too lol)
Bottom line advertising is targeted toward the masses to sell, Consumers buy what appeals to them.
If you don't want people's opinion don't post on a forum
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