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Old 08-05-2006, 06:11 AM   #31
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Default Re: Controverisal Topic

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You know what nik, you like to think you think of yourself as controversial, you like to think of yourself as intelligent, but in reality, you don't prove nothing, I for one I am bored of your so called arguments, you research so called arguments but when in reality you live in Germany, and you like to use that as a pro and a con, when it suits you.

In numerous occasions you have used both sides of the coin to try and prove an argument, in every argument you have also tried to exalt yourself, if you truly believe that you are better then everyone else then that is fair play to yourself, but you are young, you have your goals and your aspirations, like every one else on here.

In regards to the topic, no one is going to know the truth, we all have our opinions, about the reasons for the so called esteemed president of america declaring war on the muslim countries of the middle east, first its Iraq, then Iran, now we watch as both the 'leaders' of our countries support Israel in its barbaric acts of war against other countries.

Wether 911 was a real disaster, it doesn't take away from the fact that many innocent lives were taken, innocent and not part of the war, whether it was a reason to declare war or not, it has now been used as an excuse, and I wish that my primeminister had enought guts to say enough is enough but that is not going to happen until the next elections.

When it comes to it, there is always going to be the conspiracy theories, such is the nature of the USA, you exult the author of the paper, but there is enough counter arguments which disprove what he has argued against.

It is important to remember the loss of lives at 911 and also the bombings in the UK, in everything we do, we provide another reason for the fundamentalists, the extremes to hate the west. I am not saying that is right, but it is the fact, what is the real reason we decide to wage war, don't tell me its persecution, because thats been happening in africa for countless number of years, its all about money, only money.

Its important to question every assumation that comes about period. You never know when a question might raise an answer or a question might slove a problem.

And yes I have the luxury of playing the German card, and the American card as I please. Its a luxury which was given to me at birth, and one which I intend on using.

As for Isreal, Isreal is being plain reckless. I am not aganist the war Isreal is invovled in at all, just the way they go about it. Isreal fires 27 precious guided missles at a UN post for 6 hours with 10 calls from that location stating its a UN postion.

If you've noticed Isreal I believe is getting to be morecareful as well.

Tell me if France, Ireland, or Scotland or somthing had a terrioist orginzation that would fire missles into lets say O London or Yorkshire or New castle or somthing would Britian sit idealy by and let the missles fly in...

I don't think so.

They'd moblize their Army and they'd go in, they'd send in their planes and they'd try and bomb the locations to get rid of the missles etc. Just like any country would, granted they might be careful not to hit civlian target.

Also Isreal from formed with world wide western support. France, Britian, Ameirca etc all supported Isreal.
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Old 08-07-2006, 10:24 AM   #32
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Default Re: Controverisal Topic

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Also, we in England won't ever forget June 7th, when over 50 people were killed & scores badly maimed & otherwise injured, a close relation of mine was on the bus behind the one that was blown up, he escaped the blast, but still has nightmares, bloody hell, what's up with that stupid sod???
I find July 7th an interesting occurance in britain this year.


I mean no disrespect to anybody involved when I say this...

england has just come out of the recieving end, (and indeed is still politically involved) in a bitter terrorist war/campaign.
this war was named the troubles and has lasted over 25 years.
where are the minutes silences for the people that died as a result of the bombings,
where are the minutes silences in memory of the many many people that dies in that 'campaign'?

I'm not saying that we shouldn't think about or honour the people that died in July last year... I just find it sad in some ways that it's the first time that britainers have thought like that... it's kind of copying the americans as they mourn sept 11th each year, (and it serves as a reminder as to why we 'need' to be at war with other countries).

but it seems mighty unfair that if your son or daughter father husband mother wife etc was killed by a nail bomb they get nothing, no rememberance, yet if you are the victim of a suicide mission that seems to currently have political implications you get a minutes silence in the middle of the day!.

the same example brings me back to the points raised above.

Quote:
Tell me if France, Ireland, or Scotland or somthing had a terrioist orginzation that would fire missles into lets say O London or Yorkshire or New castle or somthing would Britian sit idealy by and let the missles fly in...

I don't think so.

They'd moblize their Army and they'd go in, they'd send in their planes and they'd try and bomb the locations to get rid of the missles etc. Just like any country would, granted they might be careful not to hit civlian target.

Also Isreal from formed with world wide western support. France, Britian, Ameirca etc all supported Isreal.
there is so much historical innacurancy and idiocy in that post, but I'm not saying it's cause you're stupid, I just don't think that you grasp the whole situation...

so lets take it point by point...

Quote:
what if france or ireland or scotland had a terrorist organisation
(with the exception of scotland they all do).

France has:

name: Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA);
countries: Spain, France
purpose:Established to create an independent Basque homeland
Targets: Spanish and French government interests, tourists
size:Unknown
founded:1959
activities:Since 1960, more than 850 killed, hundreds injured

but you don't see france of spain bombing the Alps each and everytime a bomb goes off do you? -No.


Ireland has

name: Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA);
Countries:Northern Ireland,
purpose: Irish Republic Splinter group, also called Continuity Army Council and Republican Sinn Fein
Targets: British military, Northern Ireland security forces, Loyalist paramilitary groups
Size:Less than 50
established:1990s
activities: Bombings, assassinations, kidnappings, hijackings, extortion, robberies
AND

Name: Real IRA;
countries: Northern Ireland, UK, Irish Republic
Purpose: Armed wing of the 32-County Sovereignty Movement to unify Ireland
Targets: civilians, military, police, and Protestant communities
Size: Less than 100
established: 1998
activities: Bombings, assassinations, robberies

So Ireand has at least two (those were the only two recognised by the american site that I found the infomation on).

but each time a bomb in London/manchester/birminghan was detonated, britain wern't ordering airstrikes on Dublin were they? -No

What's worse is that the terror campaign waged against britain was actually supported by many americans, including donations of Arms and money!
(basically is seems america is only worried about anti terrorism policies, since they've been the target, before then terrorism was OK... and Infact encorage supported and funded!).


the last point to address is the idea that Isreal was founded as a state with support from France Britain and America...

Isreal was founded because there needed to be a place to put all the Jews who were displaced from Germany during WWII. Isreal might well have been founded with great intentions by the western countries, but the middle eastern countries had little to no say in the matter!

in short if someone now took half of america and said I'm creating a african homeland for all the people displaced during slavery there would be an uproar,

and I imagine that there would be fighting some 80 years on and more!! in fact I don't see that there would ever be any peace in the region, either from the people displaced from their homs into that region, of the people that were in that region before that were forced out!!

besides which since it's independance as a state (after the British gave up their mandate to control the West bank of the river Jordan in 1948)
800,000 palestinians were forcebly evicted from their land, having their homes crops villages etc destroyed. hence Many palestinians were forced to become refugees in the west bank and gaza.

throughout time (since 1948) isreal has gradually siezed more and more palestinian land.

in 1967 isreal attacked palestine and took more of the land until there was only some 22% left of what was once palestine (bear in mind this is also a holy land!!!).

Since 1948 what was palestine has become mostly isreal and most palestinians have been ethically clensed (read: murder because of the religion they follow).

a few more facts... during the build up to this current campaign (and by campaign in Isreal I mean bombing civillians)
more than 100 palestinians were killed before any suicide bombers had done anything.
more than 40% of all palestinian males have been (or are) in prison

and there are over 4 million palestinian refugees registered with the UN.

that is to say that there are still people who were displaced in 1948 that are still homless.

and the last fact...
the US government bankrolls Isreal to the tune of $4 billion dollars a year (30% of the overseas spend).
this has helped isreal become the middle easts ONLY nuclear power (with active threats of war to the other middle eastern countries undergoing uranium inrichment project even for Nuclear power!).

Is it any wonder that after their homes were stollen, destroyed, their lively hoods taken away and inhabbited by some new people that the western countries didn't know what to do with that there may be a little contention in the air...

people at this place get ansi enough when they get nagative rep point, or banned for a week, and it's only a forum. imagine if you were banned from your homes forever and forced into a refugee camp?
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Old 08-07-2006, 10:28 AM   #33
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Default Re: Controverisal Topic

and in response to the original post...

like I said to start with.. if enough people knock on enough doors then there will be some questions answered. but it's not going to happen overnight


I'm not quite sure what the post is trying to proove though..
it specifically says that Jet fuel didn't melt the pillars, the pillars actually didn't melt...

(ok fair enough).
but it says that hot metal can easily stay hot when it is well insulated under ground...

so could an ordinary fire have heated the metal and after the collapse could it have stayed hot?
surely that is a possibility?
-edit... do you have the original source for the 9/11 engineering quesries outlined in the paper? or the orignial source of the paper, or any idea who published it?
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Old 08-07-2006, 10:55 AM   #34
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Exclamation Re: Controverisal Topic

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
and in response to the original post...

like I said to start with.. if enough people knock on enough doors then there will be some questions answered. but it's not going to happen overnight


I'm not quite sure what the post is trying to proove though..
it specifically says that Jet fuel didn't melt the pillars, the pillars actually didn't melt...

(ok fair enough).
but it says that hot metal can easily stay hot when it is well insulated under ground...

so could an ordinary fire have heated the metal and after the collapse could it have stayed hot?
surely that is a possibility?
-edit... do you have the original source for the 9/11 engineering quesries outlined in the paper? or the orignial source of the paper, or any idea who published it?
Go to Google, enter "construction world trade center" exactly that, & on the first page, click on "NY World Trade Center destroyed by terrorist attack", loads of details, including details of construction etc, let us know how you got on.
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Old 08-07-2006, 11:40 AM   #35
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Default Re: Controverisal Topic

hmmm... from the original post

Quote:
I have come across a paper, not writen by some smart cocky 21 year old college student covering physics of the collaspe of the towers. BUT A PH.D PROFESSOR IN A RESPECTED AMERICAN UNIVERSTY.



SOme quotes from the long paper
I was more looking for the original paper as written by a scientist and endorsed by the achademic institution rather than a few collective sources that are hard to back up...

perhaps the original papers title (if not direct link) so it can be searched on an achademic database?
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Old 08-07-2006, 12:21 PM   #36
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Default Re: Controverisal Topic

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
hmmm... from the original post



I was more looking for the original paper as written by a scientist and endorsed by the achademic institution rather than a few collective sources that are hard to back up...

perhaps the original papers title (if not direct link) so it can be searched on an achademic database?
*Sigh*, did you click everywhere on that site?, at the top it gives the name of the firm of associates, Minoru Yamasaki is the chief architect, why don't you enter his name on Google & see if you get a link to him, I've contacted some quite senior officials this way in the past, go for it.
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Old 08-07-2006, 02:10 PM   #37
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Default Re: Controverisal Topic

us in canada are haveing are troops pulled out priminister harper made a statment saying they should fight it out amonsgt themselves but they attack us we will retaliate
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Old 08-07-2006, 06:43 PM   #38
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Default Re: Controverisal Topic

Woah... Punctuation... Grammar...

Something. That hurt my head!
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