Go Back   Computer Forums > Welcome To Computer Forums .org > Social Lounge | Off Topic
Click Here to Login
Join Computer forums Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-23-2011, 12:10 PM   #1
j03
~~~~~~~~
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Wales
Posts: 5,556
Send a message via MSN to j03
Default "Computational Energy"

Is there such thing?

This is quite theoretical here...

But imagine a processor that gave out no heat, no sound, no light etc.

The processor could do super-complex mathematical equations, with 10000 times the processing power of the current day supercomputers.

Would the energy input always equal the energy output, even though the machine is performing strenuous equations?

Everything that I know about physics (conservation of energy & mass etc) is telling me that no power is needed to do maths... so I don't think there is.

I just find it interesting that energy is not needed to do computations.
__________________

j03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2011, 02:04 PM   #2
Golden Master
 
superman22x's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,903
Send a message via MSN to superman22x Send a message via Yahoo to superman22x
Default Re: "Computational Energy"

Laws of thermodynamics wouldn't allow it as far as I know.
__________________

__________________
“Adults are just obsolete children and the hell with them.” - Dr. Suess
superman22x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2011, 03:08 PM   #3
j03
~~~~~~~~
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Wales
Posts: 5,556
Send a message via MSN to j03
Default Re: "Computational Energy"

You mean the laws of thermodynamics wouldn't allow a 100% efficient (wrt heat) processor? Or wouldn't allow "Computational Energy" to exist?
j03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2011, 05:29 PM   #4
Golden Master
 
superman22x's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,903
Send a message via MSN to superman22x Send a message via Yahoo to superman22x
Default Re: "Computational Energy"

Quote:
Originally Posted by j03 View Post
You mean the laws of thermodynamics wouldn't allow a 100% efficient (wrt heat) processor? Or wouldn't allow "Computational Energy" to exist?
I don't think they would allow a 100% efficient processor, but I'm not really sure. I know a 100% efficient engine is impossible, not sure about a processor to be honest. I would think impossible though.
__________________
“Adults are just obsolete children and the hell with them.” - Dr. Suess
superman22x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2011, 05:58 PM   #5
Site Team
 
berry120's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: England, UK
Posts: 3,425
Default Re: "Computational Energy"

Quote:
Everything that I know about physics (conservation of energy & mass etc) is telling me that no power is needed to do maths... so I don't think there is.
Problem is "doing maths" isn't really a physical concept - the key is how you do the maths. However the implication there is that to do maths you need to do work to get the result, and doing work certainly does require power in some form or another (or at least a transfer of energy.)

100% in terms of efficiency is theoretically possible using classical mechanics laws, but practically it'll never happen, or ever get close (and it's a long time since I've looked at it but I'm pretty sure effects such as quantum tunelling will prevent 100% efficiency even in theory on the level processors work at.)

Instead if you're looking at the next huge leap in processor design, check out quantum processors. In the next few decades or so I reckon it'll go mainstream and give us an order of magnitude better processing capability than we have at present (it's actually a lot closer than people realise.) Thing is unlike computers at present you'll never really understand it unless you've got a pretty good grasp at vector maths well beyond 3 dimensions and a solid grasp of quantum theory. The potential however, is huge!
__________________
Save the whales, feed the hungry, free the mallocs.
berry120 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2011, 06:47 PM   #6
Guru
 
JogaBonito1502's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: U.S.
Posts: 7,841
Default Re: "Computational Energy"

Quote:
Originally Posted by j03 View Post
But imagine a processor that gave out no heat, no sound, no light etc.
It is impossible to build a processor that does not give off heat as it is in direct violation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
JogaBonito1502 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2011, 05:13 PM   #7
Golden Master
 
superman22x's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,903
Send a message via MSN to superman22x Send a message via Yahoo to superman22x
Default Re: "Computational Energy"

Quote:
Originally Posted by JogaBonito1502 View Post
It is impossible to build a processor that does not give off heat as it is in direct violation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.
The second law says no heat engine can be 100% efficient. But a processor does what? Turns electricity into heat? Work?

But I guess with the same law, no process in the real world can be 100% reversible, so it would be impossible to achieve 100% efficiency. But there is no limit on how close to reversible is achievable.
__________________
“Adults are just obsolete children and the hell with them.” - Dr. Suess
superman22x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2011, 09:16 PM   #8
Golden Master
 
sniperviper21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 5,438
Default Re: "Computational Energy"

Moving electrons through transistors releases heat due to the mechanical make up of the device.
so its not possible.
__________________

__________________
You got to have a Fiddle in the band!
sniperviper21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0