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Old 08-14-2008, 12:47 PM   #71
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

in my defense..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy...ublic_of_China

"Following the Chinese Communist Party's Third Plenum, held in October 2003, Chinese legislators unveiled several proposed amendments to the state constitution. One of the most significant was a proposal to provide protection for private property rights. Legislators also indicated there would be a new emphasis on certain aspects of overall government economic policy, including efforts to reduce unemployment (now in the 8-10% range in urban areas), to rebalance income distribution between urban and rural regions, and to maintain economic growth while protecting the environment and improving social equity. The National People's Congress approved the amendments when it met in March 2004.

The Fifth Plenum in October 2005 approved the 11th Five-Year Economic Program (2006-2010) aimed at building a "harmonious society" through more balanced wealth distribution and improved education, medical care, and social security. On March 2006, the National People's Congress approved the 11th Five-Year Program. The plan called for a relatively conservative 45% increase in GDP and a 20% reduction in energy intensity (energy consumption per unit of GDP) by 2010.

China's economy grew at an average rate of 10% per year during the period 1990-2004, the highest growth rate in the world. China's GDP grew 10.0% in 2003, 10.1%, in 2004, and even faster 10.4% in 2005 despite attempts by the government to cool the economy. China's total trade in 2006 surpassed $1.76 trillion, making China the world's third-largest trading nation after the U.S. and Germany. Such high growth is necessary if China is to generate the 15 million jobs needed annually — roughly the size of Ecuador or Cambodia — to employ new entrants into the job market.

Nevertheless, serious imbalances exist behind the spectacular trade performance, high investment flows, and high GDP growth. High numbers of non-performing loans weigh down the state-run banking system. Inefficient state-owned enterprises (SOEs) are still a drag on growth, despite announced efforts to reform, sell, merge, or close the vast majority of SOEs.

Social and economic indicators have improved since reforms were launched, but rising inequality is evident between the more highly developed coastal provinces and the less developed, poorer inland regions. According to World Bank estimates in 2007, around 300 million people in China — mostly in rural areas of the lagging inland provinces — still lived in poverty, on consumption of less than $1 a day.[42] That made the poor population roughly the size of the entire United States population. About 35% of the Chinese population lives under $2 a day.[43]"

So, I was correct to some extent...Outside of Bejin, in other parts of china, the ecomony sucks 35% still in poverty.


Also The US Poverty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty..._United_States

A bit confusing, but since we have a "federal marker of poverty" or whatever. Thus Our poverty is like making minium wage compared to china's 2 dollar an hour and such..

Then you have the people that are homeless.. so you'll have to figure all of that in to the equation.

Thus what I mean is that our poverty is like living in a trailer park making mininum wage, and barely "making it by".
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:58 PM   #72
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

the marker of poverty is sometimes touted at a dollar a day.

generally the actual marker for poverty is actually the cost of housing, clothing and feeding. and does not include luxuries.

for example, if you can't afford a house, a shirt and a loaf of bread then you are living or working in poverty.

when I say afford a house, I mean afford to at least rent dwellings, not outright own a house.
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:00 PM   #73
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

but you also have to think a dollar goes further than it does here, its still poor but not as much assome people think.
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:05 PM   #74
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

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Originally Posted by ace777 View Post
but you also have to think a dollar goes further than it does here, its still poor but not as much assome people think.
Whilst that may be true, it still only barely covers essentials. If you have two parents in a single Chinese family working for a dollar per day, that's two dollars to house, feed, clothe and heat three or four people. That's still not a lot at all. You could only just survive as a family on two lots of that wage in the same way that you could only just survive as a family of four with two people bringing in whatever minimum wage in the US or UK is. You'd almost never be able to buy anything considered a luxury.
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:09 PM   #75
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

yes im just stating this because some people for some reason think like their own economy and how little that is, is bigger then speculated butstill very small.
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:17 PM   #76
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

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Originally Posted by dorfman View Post
in my defense..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy...ublic_of_China

Also The US Poverty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty..._United_States

A bit confusing, but since we have a "federal marker of poverty" or whatever. Thus Our poverty is like making minium wage compared to china's 2 dollar an hour and such..
First of all, I'll take these 2 figures from the links you posted.
Direct quotes:
China: "Population below poverty line (2004) 10%"
USA: "Poverty in the United States is cyclical in nature with roughly 12% to 16% living below the federal poverty line at any given point in time"

So, in fact, in the USA a bigger percentage of people are living in poverty.

And yes the amount of money that you need to earn to be above the poverty line is very different. This is just because the overall cost of living is different.

edit: Also, forgot to mention that like you can see the statistic for China has been taken 4 years ago. I would be willing to bet that the situation is better now.
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Old 08-14-2008, 01:28 PM   #77
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

The situation in china is better now than before, especially in HK. I was just there in the beginning of June, and eveything changed. But from what my relatives make, they dont make as much as my parents do in america, so my family is usually more rich, but not by much. I think that is one reason why things are cheaper there since not many people get paid as well as they do in america. From what i remember, i bought some kind of mcdonald meal for about 2-3 dollars (chicken, drink, fries)
Why did i order chicken in mcdonald while i could be eating authentic chinese food?
Its because i have been living here for a long time where i have adjusted to prefer fast food than to sit down in a restuarant with some dim sum and a nice cup of tea.

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You all make me laugh..

OH don't say anything bad about china, because you american's are afful people and here is why....


Aren't you doing the exact same thing? Being "racist" against America?

Oh but thats ok.

Oh and glorfing a country, any country makes me laugh as well.

China? Their ecomony sucks. Their average worker makes less than a dollar an hour. Outside of Bejin, you are mostly likely a farmer, and probably have a limited education due to the fact you have no money.

Lets not mention the FACT that they have a government laws prohibiting you from having children, spefically females, why do you think we always adobt chinese girls? Because well, the people in china like "giving them away" because their is A LAW saying you aren't suppose to have more than one female.

But, lets not mention that. Lets bash America.



Get over yourselves.

We are all in the same boat. Its not my country that defines who I AM.
Actually, now you can have how many children you want, the only reason why that happened in the past was because Mao Zhe Dong was in charge, thats when china got screwed over (why they make him a idol... i dont know.)
maybe you should go to china, and walk around, that law does not apply to all places.

i am not bashing on america, i am only trying to defend china, they are both great countries that got their own unique differences.
I just dont like how people think one "thing" is better than others.

EDIT - most american people i meet are pretty cool, though they are stereotypical sometimes, i know they say it jokingly.
The only american i think is awful are the ones that talk bad about other countries and their race.
and its not only americans, there are some other races are like that, like my mom, she says things like she doesnt like the people that talk bad about china, and think that all mexicans and blacks are evil and are into gangs. She might be racist, but she is still my mom, i make fun of her because of the way she acts towards other races, she still likes most americans, but only if they dont talk bad about the chinese.
Good thing i am not like that, since 1/3 of my friends are asians.
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Old 08-14-2008, 04:23 PM   #78
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

Just because they earn a dollar an hour dosent make them poor , just because a dollar wont go far dosent mean with chinas developing economy it wont go far , things are cheaper in china and the cost of living is a lot lower , a dollar over there could mean 5 dollars over there in proportionate terms , dont take that as fact i was just demonstrating how a dollar means a completely different thing in both cointries
for instance its like comparing the fule costs in the US and UK its completely different as the cost of living and the ammount of money people earn is different on each side of the atlantic and so their fuel may seem cheap to us but the proce of living over here may be less than over there

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I don't buy into that. There is no one else to blame for that than the Chinese government ..they allow these companies to charge their workers ridiculously low wages which is what leads to these other countries taking advantage of cheaparse foreign trade.
Yes but the government is pressured into letting this happen by bothe big business and other countries , mainly because it would be damaging to other countries if china(and other developing economies such as india ) stopped allowing their country to be used as the worlds manufacturing plant because all this dirty pouting manufacturing has to be done somewhere i think you will agree and the developed world would rather it not be done in their country as they are all currently claiming to be committed to being green and so all this dirty manufacturing being moved from china to their country is a big NO NO , even though the companies that develop from this cheap labor are actually based in these developed countries , the developed countries like it this way because it is a massive boost to their economy if the companies in that country make lots of profit from cheap labor as they then pay lots of taxes which then boosts economy ,
which is another reason the developed worl likes manufacturing staying in the developed world because the labor is cheap the companies make large profits whereas if the manufacturing was moved to the developed countries profits would fall and so the compnaies would pay less tax and in the long run the economies of the developed world would weaken over time which is also a big no no especially in the current UK and US economic climate

And so the governments of the developed world prefer all manufacturing to be done out of their country as it boosts economy and green credentials

for this reason i don't think the responsibility should fall completely at china's door simply because if they say no to allowing this cheap labor in their country a lot of other countries and large international companies are going to be pissed off and seek other alternative places for cheap labor and so china's economy will again weaken to what it was before the outsourcing began and so china is going to get nowhere , if we do that we will only be faced with the same problems years down the line when once again china gets fed up of being a economically weak country and tries to get up there again

Also i dont see why the whole world pollution problems are just chinas fault , a lot of the developed nations have been through industrial stages whereby dirty manufacturing was done in their country which got them to where they are now , and this over time has obviously contributed to the environment problems so why is the world now saying china shouldn't be allowed the same industrial revolution all of our countries have benefited from in the past
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Old 08-14-2008, 06:09 PM   #79
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

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but you also have to think a dollar goes further than it does here, its still poor but not as much assome people think.
I have a feeling that everyone only read the first line of my post.

the reason people say a dollar a day is not because that's the universal great thing everyone needs just one dollar, imagine that, in UK terms that's about 80pence a day, not even enough for a loaf of bread, let alone a house or clothes.

yet in other countries a dollar would suffice to pay for housing, clothing and food. (I don't know what country).

the reason the 'term' "A dollar a day" is coined is because it's easy to remember, it's catchy and it helps to illustrate to people that when governments talk about giving aid to a country to help lift people out of debt, it's not like they are talking about giving away all of their tax money collected for that year.

it's an over simplification.

which is why in the second part of my post I said, the almost* universally accepted level that defines the poverty line is earning enough money to put food on the table, and a roof over your head


*I say almost universally accepted because (and to bring the conversation full circle), in china the measure that is used for the poverty line when publishing most figures is actually earning enough to feed yourself, (or family), and does not include the cost of being able to cloth yourself, or house yourself. these are known as food poverty line and general poverty line.

you can read more about poverty measures in china here
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Old 08-14-2008, 06:11 PM   #80
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

Cool fact: 1 US dollar = 18 million Zimbabwe dollars

You can fill up a gas tank with about 60,000 Zimbabwe dollars.
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