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Old 08-14-2008, 05:39 AM   #61
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

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Originally Posted by Lowndsey View Post
LOL yeah they started doing that as of the 1st of march this year. They were awarded the Olympics what ..nearly 10 years ago. Huge effort. And those measures were undertaken as an 11th hour "emergency plan" in the words of Chinas own Olympic president.
Good point, never thought about that. Yeah they knew that they will get the olympics back in 2001, so maybe they should have started to get rid of the pollution a bit earlier.

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I don't buy into that. There is no one else to blame for that than the Chinese government ..they allow these companies to charge their workers ridiculously low wages which is what leads to these other countries taking advantage of cheaparse foreign trade.
Well of course they allow the companies to charge low wages. It's the main reason why their economy has grown and an amazing speed. During the past 30 years their GDP has grown by about 10% per year. That is VERY high, and tbh it's awesome for their country. So yeah, there are problems (like pollution) but you can't really tell them to force higher wages because it would destroy their whole economy and then the whole country would be screwed up.
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Old 08-14-2008, 08:33 AM   #62
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

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...however the American government got away with using these weapons against japan
winners write the history books, there is nothing new there!
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America doesn't gives us SH*T!
Its harder for chinese people to find a job in America, America wont give us jobs so all we can do is work in a chinese restaurant.
racism against the Chinese in america, again nothing new.
little history lesson for you all.

opium, (and hence herion et al) only became illegal in America as a way to suppress the chinese immigrant workers.

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yer but it always does end up being about politics
which kinda sucks cos it should be a celebration of the worlds sporting talent but these days its over shaddowed by politics and cheaters using illegal substances to win
anyone else surprised by the amounts of illegal doping that'd been going on this year? apparantly there were tens of Russian 'athletes' disqualified.
and the Jamaican team is getting tested so much that they are now suggesting it's actually affecting their performance, (one team tested 32 times in five days!)
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wrong. They have most definitely done pretty much everything they could to reduce pollution. For example, before the olympics started (and I'd imagine it's the same now) cars are allowed to be used only on every other day. So, for example, monday you can use a car and tuesday you can't, wednesday you can etc.. (obviously so that 50% of the cars can be used on monday, the other 50% on tuesday etc).
That and they closed down some factories or something like that close to Bejing. Also, I don't remember the amount of trees they planted, but I'm sure it was in the thousands.

The results are good, though still the air isn't as good as it is in many other countries. But saying they didn't do anything is just wrong.

And muz, I don't have anything against political debate threads. That is, if they are done properly. A thread with the topic of "China is a polished turd" isnt' exactly my idea of a proper and mature debate.
OK, so we have temporary unsustainable measures, last minute rush to try to put a shine on a bad situation,

trying to make something bad look better,

that's exactly what polishing a turd is.

the thread title is correctly descriptive.


edit -removed part of post about war since it's now banned from the thread.
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Old 08-14-2008, 08:54 AM   #63
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

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OK, so we have temporary unsustainable measures, last minute rush to try to put a shine on a bad situation

So, what do you suggest? The government closing down the factories it owns / forcing companies to close factories. Maybe force companies to build new high tech factories which don't pollute? Anyway, we are looking at some really really big chances which would make a very noticeable difference in just a few years, not something like "increase spending on public transportation".

Sure, closing down factories would cut down the pollution. But at what cost? Like I said, their economy is very strong now and you can bet that they aren't going to risk that. Their economic growth is multiple times faster than most western countries. Like I said, their GDP has increased by an average of 10% per year during the past 30 years. Name one country that has archieved the same (or even close to the same) while still reducing the amount of pollution they create. There might be some but I can't name any. And please, if you have an idea how to effectively decrease pollution by a very large % in under 10 years while having no or very little negative impact on economy then share it with us.

My point is that no country is going to destroy their economy just so they can say "hey, we reduced the amount of pollution we create"
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Old 08-14-2008, 09:18 AM   #64
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

You all make me laugh..

OH don't say anything bad about china, because you american's are afful people and here is why....


Aren't you doing the exact same thing? Being "racist" against America?

Oh but thats ok.

Oh and glorfing a country, any country makes me laugh as well.

China? Their ecomony sucks. Their average worker makes less than a dollar an hour. Outside of Bejin, you are mostly likely a farmer, and probably have a limited education due to the fact you have no money.

Lets not mention the FACT that they have a government laws prohibiting you from having children, spefically females, why do you think we always adobt chinese girls? Because well, the people in china like "giving them away" because their is A LAW saying you aren't suppose to have more than one female.

But, lets not mention that. Lets bash America.



Get over yourselves.

We are all in the same boat. Its not my country that defines who I AM.
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Old 08-14-2008, 09:37 AM   #65
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

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Originally Posted by mammikoura View Post
So, what do you suggest? The government closing down the factories it owns / forcing companies to close factories. Maybe force companies to build new high tech factories which don't pollute? Anyway, we are looking at some really really big chances which would make a very noticeable difference in just a few years, not something like "increase spending on public transportation".

Sure, closing down factories would cut down the pollution. But at what cost? Like I said, their economy is very strong now and you can bet that they aren't going to risk that. Their economic growth is multiple times faster than most western countries. Like I said, their GDP has increased by an average of 10% per year during the past 30 years. Name one country that has archieved the same (or even close to the same) while still reducing the amount of pollution they create. There might be some but I can't name any. And please, if you have an idea how to effectively decrease pollution by a very large % in under 10 years while having no or very little negative impact on economy then share it with us.

My point is that no country is going to destroy their economy just so they can say "hey, we reduced the amount of pollution we create"
But you do have to come to a compromise, otherwise the economy that you've spent so long establishing would go to waste. I think investment in other industries in China, along with very gradual shifts to other areas of production that don't create as much pollution, is what needs to be done.

To those who are blaming only the Chinese government, think about it. If companies from countries outside China (your countries!) come in and exploit that cheap labour and encourage the Chinese government not to act on it, then they are just as bad. They are fuelling the economy by pouring huge amounts of money in to the country (and in turn, taking huge profits in comparison to their losses).

Quote:
Originally Posted by root
trying to make something bad look better,

that's exactly what polishing a turd is.

the thread title is correctly descriptive.
Every time I see a country hosting an event like the Olympics, Commonwealth Games, Football World Cup, Rugby World Cup, cricket tournaments, tennis championships etc. they look spectacular on the television, but they are often covering up the bad parts of their country, and all countries have them. When the Olympics come to London in four years, I doubt that they will drag cameras around the city to illustrate the gang violence, countless murders, large population of homeless people and all of our unemployed.

Instead, they will focus on the richer parts of the city where crime rates are lower, the streets are cleaner and the people generally much happier, to give the impression that London (and Great Britain as a whole) is a fantastic place to live and is as problem-free as they can make it seem.

The scale on which China may be doing this is much bigger, but would you try to make your country look worse if it was hosting an event as big as this? I think I can guess at the answer.
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:38 AM   #66
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

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But you do have to come to a compromise, otherwise the economy that you've spent so long establishing would go to waste. I think investment in other industries in China, along with very gradual shifts to other areas of production that don't create as much pollution, is what needs to be done.
this is true. However the change will be a slow one and it has to come at it's own pace. Making huge economical changes just so athletes have cleaner air to breathe is not really an option.

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China? Their ecomony sucks.
www.google.com
please, educate yourself
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:41 AM   #67
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

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why do you think we always adobt chinese girls? Because well, the people in china like "giving them away" because their is A LAW saying you aren't suppose to have more than one female.
No, the law is one child, not one female child and that's because of their over-population issues. Most families put the girls up for adaption because they are seen as inferior there, and only men get the good jobs. It's seen as a great thing for a son to make it big, but a daughter to marry a rich guy? Not so much.
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Old 08-14-2008, 11:56 AM   #68
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

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China? Their ecomony sucks.
You're completely wrong. Their economy is growing much faster than ours and is expected to surpass ours in the coming years. Our country is losing jobs to China especially in fields such as manufacturing. China has the potential to be the world's economic super power and it probably will be.
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:05 PM   #69
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

yeah americas economy is crap right now china will pass us in a few years if it continues, the euro is already way past us now...
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Old 08-14-2008, 12:17 PM   #70
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Default Re: China is a polished turd

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So, what do you suggest? The government closing down the factories it owns / forcing companies to close factories. Maybe force companies to build new high tech factories which don't pollute? Anyway, we are looking at some really really big chances which would make a very noticeable difference in just a few years, not something like "increase spending on public transportation".

... Name one country that has archieved the same (or even close to the same) while still reducing the amount of pollution they create. There might be some but I can't name any. And please, if you have an idea how to effectively decrease pollution by a very large % in under 10 years while having no or very little negative impact on economy then share it with us.

My point is that no country is going to destroy their economy just so they can say "hey, we reduced the amount of pollution we create"
that's my point, closing factories, and banning cars might make the air cleaner for a few weeks, but it's not a manageable or sustainable change, it's just a band aid type measure that doesn't solve a problem. which will be back in force in just a few weeks after the games have finished!

so far as naming countries that cut pollution whilst also managing to maintain industrial growth, well, the UK did manage it.
though that's a moot point since the way that UK managed it was through the reduction of use of smog producing products, (like coal), in favour of cleaner fuels, (like a treated coal such as anthracite), trouble is (and why the point is moot) is that china already uses clean burning fuels.

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China? Their ecomony sucks. Their average worker makes less than a dollar an hour. Outside of Bejin, you are mostly likely a farmer, and probably have a limited education due to the fact you have no money.
We are all in the same boat. Its not my country that defines who I AM.
I was going to correct you on the one family one child law, however someone got there first.
I'll elaborate on it though.
families can have more than one child, however, if they do the family will be fined. I'm not certain if this is still current, though I was listening to a radio programme a few weeks ago where it was also said that the second child isn't exactly registered as a citizen, and hence can't go to school to be educated etc and thus life is made a lot more difficult

on the subject of earning less than a dollar an hour, I guess that you didn't know that China has the best record, worldwide ever for lifting the population out of poverty, (that is to say that the most people in the shortest amount of time has been lifted to be above the poverty line).

I left the last line of your post in my quote because I quite liked that, it really sums up the arguments as far as I can see, I'm not knocking china after all it's only a country. it's almost amazing how much debate has been generated by a simple event such as this series of athletic events.
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When the Olympics come to London in four years, I doubt that they will drag cameras around the city to illustrate the gang violence, countless murders, large population of homeless people and all of our unemployed.

it's almost guaranteed that before the Olympics happen here in the UK in 2012 that there will be a massive focus on cleaning up London, painting over graffiti improving roads, all things that should be being done anyway, not special cause other people are likely to see it. No, I doubt that they will focus on trying to make London look any worse, undeniably they'll want to make it look better and shield certain bits, and the same analogy will apply, they'll be polishing a turd. not really improving it.
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