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Old 06-02-2010, 10:05 AM   #11
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Default Re: Battery low in the fast lane

Solar cars FTW. We did a project on them in PoE, we had to present them to the class and advertise for our car design.
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Old 06-02-2010, 10:52 AM   #12
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Default Re: Battery low in the fast lane

I think hydrogen is the future for cars as well. No useless bi-products.

Are you sure Foothead that if there was a major crash, the container wouldn't explode? I would imagine hydrogen would burn a lot quicker, and cause more of an explosion than gasoline, or am I wrong?
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: Battery low in the fast lane

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I think hydrogen is the future for cars as well. No useless bi-products.
100% agree.

Quote:
Are you sure Foothead that if there was a major crash, the container wouldn't explode? I would imagine hydrogen would burn a lot quicker, and cause more of an explosion than gasoline, or am I wrong?
Foothead is in fact completely correct on this one

First off, pressurised containers have to undergo ridiculous safety checks and be stupidly strong. They just wouldn't go off in a collision - even if it was really serious. As said above you can shoot these things and they'll barely dent. The safety precautions round them are simply massive.

Secondly, even if a leak did occur, hydrogen disperses very quickly (being the lightest element in the universe.) It'll most likely disperse too quickly to render the air around it inflammable, even if if it were to go off...

...which is unlikely, since thirdly hydrogen actually has a HIGHER auto-ignition temperature than petrol (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fu...res-d_171.html) so yes, contrary to popular belief it's less likely to blow.

Let's say the thing goes completely wrong and after all, the hydrogen does blow up. I've already shown that's far, far more unlikely than with petrol cars but assuming it did. It burns quickly, much more quickly than petrol. It'll be an explosion, but a near instant one (and as such it'll likely do far less damage.) Hydrogen fumes are also, well, water vapour. That's non toxic, on the contrary petrol and diesel fumes are rather highly toxic.

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WOW Tommy Boy, not a lot of people know this - but the Hindenburg was stuffed full of Hydrogen and Whammy ! It went up like a huge fireworks display in one mighty puff. Poor Adolf cried his eyes out.
...and even fewer people know that the hydrogen is unlikely to have been the major factor in this explosion. The skin of the airship was made from a highly flammable material, and this would've been ignited anyway and burned very quickly. Yes, it did ignite the hydrogen, but that all escaped UPWARDS before igniting - probably burning itself out in under a minute. The actual toxic, deadly fires on the ground were caused by the flammable skin remnants reaching the diesel engines on board the airship - igniting the diesel tank and subsequently the whole ship.

Minus the explosion in the atmosphere, we'd have probably seen exactly the same result with a non flammable gas such as helium - the flammable shell would have still burned through, igniting the diesel tanks and collapsing the ship.

Hydrogen is much much safer than people think - and the sooner we can disperse these myths that everyone's going to die as soon as they drive their hydrogen powered cars away, sooner we can get onto developing a long lasting, sustainable and practical solution. Must admit it annoys the heck out of me when people assume things are dangerous and then hold progress up because of these incorrect assumptions... Please, please do some research before slagging off and trying to sign the death warrant of potentially brilliant technologies!
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: Battery low in the fast lane

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Originally Posted by eslfish View Post
Solar cars FTW. We did a project on them in PoE, we had to present them to the class and advertise for our car design.
Lmao I had a solar hot wheels car when I was like 8. It worked pretty well, but you need a ridiculous amount of incredibly expensive panels for it to run on any but the sunniest days. And you would still need a crapload of batteries for when it gets dark.
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Old 06-02-2010, 05:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: Battery low in the fast lane

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WOW Tommy Boy, not a lot of people know this - but the Hindenburg was stuffed full of Hydrogen and Whammy ! It went up like a huge fireworks display in one mighty puff. Poor Adolf cried his eyes out.

I shudder to think of all those Hydrogen fill-up stations dotted around like fully armed Nukes with the careless public just waiting to press the button and OH NO not a DIY job in the garage and stacks of Hydrogen bottles all over the place like beer cans. It`s getting more horrific every second.

It smacks of so much danger that Armageddon will descend upon us all like Lucifer`s inferno with a really BIG BANG and whoosh ! we`re gone.
The whole idea should have an "X" certificate. It will make Apocalypse Now look like a kids bedtime video.

Gee, man, I hope I`m tucked well under-ground by that time.
Uh yeah, I know all about the Hindenburg...lol

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Electric cars will never be the future as long as they're powered by batteries.
Exactly, batteries are expensive, heavy, and they don't last as long as you would want them to for a car. Batteries are a weak link.

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Originally Posted by Kage View Post
I think hydrogen is the future for cars as well. No useless bi-products.

Are you sure Foothead that if there was a major crash, the container wouldn't explode? I would imagine hydrogen would burn a lot quicker, and cause more of an explosion than gasoline, or am I wrong?
You're wrong, cars don't usually explode like they do in the movies....lol
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Old 06-02-2010, 06:05 PM   #16
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Default Re: Battery low in the fast lane

Bbattery tech is improving, we will see all electric cars. And electric/gas hybrids for longer distances. Hydrogen needs too much space to be worthwhile.

Heck, there is already a battery powered pickup truck with nothing under the hood that'll go 60+ miles on a single charge, AND haul a decent amount (though not comparable to gas). So give it a few years and we'll see electric cars.
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Old 06-03-2010, 10:22 AM   #17
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Default Re: Battery low in the fast lane

I really mean it, the replies on this subject are highly commendable - every single one of them. A lot of intelligence and wisdom has been expressed in this thread.
I do not agree with everything that has been said of course, but that is the essence of intellectual discussion and I appreciate it so very much.

Thank you all for keeping the topic on track and not allowing it to degenerate into a petty squabbling match so typical of most Forum`s.
Sorry about the Hindenburg example. It was necessary, but not intended to drive the post off topic.

Who cares anyway ? The big bag has gone. I do not give a fig whether it was static electricity igniting the Hydrogen or an inflammable covering. The example was worth making. Just forget it.

OK, here is the bottom line :-

When oil reserves do run out preceded by a gradual shortage, I can forecast ONE certainty :-

There is NO alternative to oil/petroleum products that will satisfy the present day demands of industry and civilised mobility. When that time comes, no scientific solution will be practical. It becomes a Mickey Mouse syndrome of total incapability to survive.

Civilisation as we know it today will cease to exist. KAPUT ! Back to the Stone Age.
The only alternative will be to revert back to steam and the faithful horse.
Piddling around with Electricity and Hydrogen or any other crack-pot idea will simply be waste of time and totally futile.

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Old 06-03-2010, 01:19 PM   #18
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Default Re: Battery low in the fast lane

Tommy Boy and Berry were spot on with their thinking, and I agree with what they said. I don't need to double up to make my point (and theirs) clear.

But what I will say is this. If this world knows anything by now, it's that we'll wait until it's too late to find a solution. I almost guarantee that (in the U.S. anyways) we'll be paying a LOT (I'm talking 4 to 5 times more than now) for gasoline before we have a solution implemented.

...and God help us if the current oil companies are the ones to bring hydrogen cars into age.
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Old 06-03-2010, 02:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: Battery low in the fast lane

There will be plenty of options if/when oil reserves run out. Seriously, we are not going to descend into Road Warrior type stuff.

Ones I can think of:
corn oil (diesel engines can run it with zero modification)
ethanol (yes impractical, but it isn't oil)
electric
hydrogen
solar (by then I am sure they will Have perfected that new type of solar cell)
steam (lol 18th century ftw!)

If oil ran out, I imagine that all of those would be used (except maybe steam.) There would also be tons of new technologies. Scientista and engineers won't just sit around with that happening.
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Old 06-03-2010, 08:22 PM   #20
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Default Re: Battery low in the fast lane

I just wish all the car companies would focus their engineering and resources in one direction so we can get further ahead with it. I mean, if all the major car companies would start focusing on hydrogen cars then who knows where the technology would be right now. Instead of trying to compete with one another, they should work in the same direction, I feel we would be better off that way. We don't need options, the gasoline engine has been our only option for the past 100 or so years, just tell us what's best and we'll buy it. Poeple don't care what they're putting in their cars to make them run.
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