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Old 10-23-2013, 11:02 AM   #21
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Default Re: banning a traditional event??

lol root ^^

Personally I don't see how any real Christian can celebrate Christmas... No offence intended.
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:14 AM   #22
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oke, i get it. but the stones are so old and i guess its cultural heritage. so i guess thats the reason thats on the passports. its the same way some dutch people look to ''black peter'' he is black, and is in control of a old whit man. but the children dont see it like that, they see it like a good man that gives candy and presents.

thats also a good argument of it. i know how you feel. i as christian wouldn't be happy whit a picture of Buddha on my passport (sorry for the people that do believe in it, i don't want to hurt anybody here). so i can understand why people do complain about the stones in Denmark
It might have been used as part of culture, but originally it is part of religion and religion is a delicate matter.

Actually, if the engraves were so old that Jesus himself knew and approved of, then by all means I would be more than happy to have him in my passport. He is a person that changed the world to better at some point. It would be an honer to me. Not to mention he is a main religious figure to me as a Muslim.

And it is sure as hell better than what youngsters these days have on their shirts of actors and singers that do and speak inappropriate language (choice of words I mean).

As for Buddha, I don't mind him at all, if I have no choice (I mean in the artistic department only). I don't question him real, no disrespect, I'm just not sure he is. And he is not part of the three religions I believe in; Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

I appreciate your understanding btw
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:16 AM   #23
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Sorry to intrude. I assure you that I at least would never ever intentionally hurt an innocent sole.
Those were the days very near to returning from Iraq and the battle of Fallujah. I hold no grudge against middle-eastern'ers. We all have our crazies out there (e.g. Westboro Baptist church)
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:38 AM   #24
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but then again I'm not religuous, so I don't need to join in the argument over who has the best imaginary friend.
Oh, it is not really an argument, it is just a friendly discussion with people I came to respect believe me

I love to share my thoughts with open minded people that's all.

Might sound unbelievable from a Muslim, knowing how the media present us (media is plural so I said "present" ), but I assure you, I mean it.

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Those were the days very near to returning from Iraq and the battle of Fallujah. I hold no grudge against middle-eastern'ers. We all have our crazies out there (e.g. Westboro Baptist church)
Sir, I appreciate your thought and response

Gotta agree with you, many crazy people here in the middle east. They give poor people like me much trouble and bad reputation.

Oops, typo there; sole = soul.
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Old 10-23-2013, 11:57 AM   #25
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Gotta agree with you, many crazy people here in the middle east. They give poor people like me much trouble and bad reputation.
Look back at it objectively, most of the Iraqi citizens I had the pleasure of speaking to (met a few who spoke very fluent English) were no different than I. I was simply caught up in the propaganda of the day that all Iraqi's were terrorists. Looking back, most of them wanted nothing to do with any of it. A very small percentage of the people I interacted with held ill-will. In fact, most of the insurgents we encountered were from Syria or Iran, just coming to pick a fight.

Every country has it's crazy people, and those are usually under-privileged folks who are indoctrinated from a young age to hold a very narrow minded view of others.

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Personally I don't see how any real Christian can celebrate Christmas... No offence intended.
Ummm, primarily because Christians today don't actually read the book they profess allegiance to. We've all heard the comparison between a Software License Agreement and the Bible... it's pretty much like that.

To your point, you're right though. The Christmas holiday is all kinds of twisted. The star on top of the tree? If you actually read the Bible, that star was put there by the devil to help the wise guys (sent by Kind Herod to find and eventually kill Jesus) find him. So we put one on top of our tree?? Odd.

To root's comment though, I don't think there's anything 'imaginary' about our creator(s)... While I don't subscribe to any religious doctrine or belief system, you cannot say that there is no creator, whatever form that creator takes. Were are not the products of extreme coincidence. The chaos theory clears that up quite nicely for us. I think Einstein put it best: We simply cannot comprehend everything that is the Universe.

Back on topic: The idea of banning a holiday is pretty silly. I could certainly agree if the holiday were "collect slaves day" or some ridiculous thing like that, but telling a people they cannot believe in their own childish views is, in its own, childish. You can't make everything acceptable to everyone. People just need to learn tolerance.
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:17 PM   #26
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As for Buddha, I don't mind him at all, if I have no choice (I mean in the artistic department only). I don't question him real, no disrespect, I'm just not sure he is. And he is not part of the three religions I believe in; Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
Is there a particular reason that you'd only follow the Abrahamic religions and not, (for example, Buddhism).

(for those that don't know Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac, the three of them eventually through teachings and bloodlines led to the creation of Judaism, Christianity and Muslim... -hence why they are called the Abrahamic religions).

that family has probably created more trouble than every other family thereafter!


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To root's comment though, I don't think there's anything 'imaginary' about our creator(s)... While I don't subscribe to any religious doctrine or belief system, you cannot say that there is no creator, whatever form that creator takes. Were are not the products of extreme coincidence. The chaos theory clears that up quite nicely for us. I think Einstein put it best: We simply cannot comprehend everything that is the Universe.
Given that nobody (save perhaps Noah, Moses, Mary and Mohammed) have ever seen or claimed to have seen or spoken to God, and if anyone claimed such a thing we'd probably have them sectioned today I think it's probably fair to say that God, if you count him/her/he/she/it as a friend is an imaginary friend.


That's not to say that said Deity does not exist outside of your imagination, but that to you your God exists inside your imagination.


and that's a part of the reason that we have the troubles that we do with fundamentalists and crazies today, when a being exists inside your imagination it's quite elastic.

Words are reasonably easy to twist to what you like, and when you believe that God is real and you are following what you have twisted to believe the word of God to be. and because your version of God exists in your head then God approves. and yet because another person has twisted the message to another way, their version of God is incompatible with your God.

well first that's when we start calling people crazies.
and secondly how having an imagined friend leads to trouble.


how would you describe something as ethereal as God as anything other than imagined?
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:35 PM   #27
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Default Re: banning a traditional event??

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Is there a particular reason that you'd only follow the Abrahamic religions and not, (for example, Buddhism).

(for those that don't know Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac, the three of them eventually through teachings and bloodlines led to the creation of Judaism, Christianity and Muslim... -hence why they are called the Abrahamic religions).

that family has probably created more trouble than every other family thereafter!
There is a reason, but I don't really know how to explain it. All I can say is I'm convinced.

But then again, is there a specific reason to follow for example Buddhism and not an Abrahimic religion? Or not to follow any of them at all?

Too many questions can be raised. In the end, believing is what makes the difference.

Honestly, this family did indeed cause much trouble one way or another. Well, it was their destiny I guess.

Please don't think bad of me. These are just my beliefs. I respect others' beliefs. This includes atheism. Yup, I have nothing against atheists.

Do you consider your self atheist? or under a specific belief?
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:40 PM   #28
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how would you describe something as ethereal as God as anything other than imagined?
The same way we accept dark matter. We can't (yet) prove it's existence or measure it, but we can see the effects of it's gravity. I believe in God much the same way. I can't prove God exists, but I can see the results of something I would compare to the idea of "God." I don't pray at night, I don't ask him/her/it/them for a new car, I don't preach to my neighbors about how freaking awesome he is and that they should repent, because you said it very well here:

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Words are reasonably easy to twist to what you like, and when you believe that God is real and you are following what you have twisted to believe the word of God to be. and because your version of God exists in your head then God approves. and yet because another person has twisted the message to another way, their version of God is incompatible with your God.
The only belief I hold in any "God" is simply that there must be one, and I have no clue what it is, nor what it wants. I can see the result of "God" in the absolute grand design that is our Universe because the probability that this all came about by chance is damn near impossible. Maybe someday I'll have coffee with him and get to ask all these questions. More likely, I'll die without ever knowing. But to simply deny existence altogether because of how other people are and how they twist the belief into a system of control based on fairy tales, seems even more narrow minded than those we condemn as foolish.
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:42 PM   #29
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Default Re: banning a traditional event??

Ohh i am really falling behind in this tread. I'll try to keep up.

Quote from Smart guy
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Well, I as Muslim honestly prefer to not have it there for just a simple reason, non of us now even seen Jesus and at that time photographic expertise were never acceptable to give good description
There are paintings of Jesus and Christians have been using his image for many years. So there is no reason that we should not draw him. And actually the Jelling stones are not so much a drawing of him but just as much a symbol and history. It's and old danish King that have had the stones made in memories of his dead wife queen Thyra Danebod. So it is very much a part of danish history and not just yet another christian sculpture.
That's why i think nobody should complain about it. Specially not when they live in the country that history belongs to.

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I actually meant if the mosque was open for prayers and services are running
Well in that case. Yes.

Quoted from zeezeiler
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oke, i get it. but the stones are so old and i guess its cultural heritage. so i guess thats the reason thats on the passports.
its the same way some dutch people look to ''black peter'' he is black, and is in control of a old whit man. but the children dont see it like that, they see it like a good man that gives candy and presents.
That is very much true. Look at the reply to Smartguy.
I think that people should use 10 minutes of there time to study what they are mad about before jumping to conclusion.
Maybe they will get to understand it a little better.

Yeah it really depend on how you look at it. People should not jump to conclusion to quickly.

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i as christian wouldn't be happy whit a picture of Buddha on my passport. so i can understand why people do complain about the stones in Denmark
If you moved to Japan, you have no right to complain about a buddha on your passport.
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:44 PM   #30
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There are paintings of Jesus and Christians have been using his image for many years. So there is no reason that we should not draw him. And actually the Jelling stones are not so much a drawing of him but more of a symbol. It's and old danish King that have had the stones made in memories of his dead wife queen Thyra Danebod. So it is very much a part of danish history and not just yet another christian sculpture.
That's why i think nobody should complain about it.
This is actually pretty convincing and makes sense to me. Having this said, I declare that I have absolutely no problem with that symbol.

Actually, it looks cool.

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Um, aren't we getting off-topic to much
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